A good melee druid build that doesn't use TWF?

[Zachski]

Every where I go, I see people using TWF for their animal forms, when it's explicitly not supposed to work in animal form. And also when it's supposed to be mutually exclusive with SWF, which they also take.

Relying on TWF for that feels like relying on a ticking time bomb as a power source. That and relying on exploits/bugs is cheating, even if it's simply to bring a class closer to par or whatever.

So, with that in mind, I want a melee druid. No, I don't mind multiclassing for this - ignore my signature for now.

I still want the majority of my levels to be in Druid. So perhaps at least 11 levels. I'll go no lower than 9, but I'm aiming for at least 11.

SWF is okay because that's working as intended for animal forms.

So perhaps I could do something with... 12 Druid 6 Monk 2 Fighter?

Or perhaps 12 Druid 8 Monk? That way, I get another damage die step.

I do plan on taking Natural Fighting feats in place of TWF.

Hmm... and I'll need a good stat spread, too.

So, let's say...

Lawful Neutral Human
16/14/14/8/16/8

How does that sound?

I'm also gonna need to figure out feat order, too.

And finally, what order should I attempt this? Should I take two monk levels first to get evasion, or two druid levels first to get Wolf Form?

Or just take several Druid levels first, then switch to Monk levels, then maybe fighter levels if I should take them, then finish up the druid levels later?

Bah, I'd use the entire character planner, but last I checked it's still outdated.

[Nayus]

TWF Wolf are broken but not stupid broken, Turbine didn't fix the form because they know it would kill the class. They did fix SWF + TWF though but THAT was stupidly powerful.

So, my suggestion is: Don't bother trying to avoid TWF. If Turbine ever fixes it then you can be 100% sure they'll buff the Druid class in some other way so that they become even more powerful.

[Zachski]

It bothers my personal code of conduct to rely on a feature that is intended to *NOT* work with the class.

Also I have no guarantee that Turbine will buff animal forms when they fix the TWF exploit, so... yeah.

[Nayus]

It bothers my personal code of conduct to rely on a feature that is intended to *NOT* work with the class.

Also I have no guarantee that Turbine will buff animal forms when they fix the TWF exploit, so... yeah.

Well, take Fire Stance instead of Earth Stance then. Fire is "intended" to be the DPS option.
/rant-off.

Kay, ignore this post and move on.

[Zachski]

If Earth got the critical bonus multiplier as a glitch instead of it being purposefully built in, you might have a point

But Earth is intended to have bigger crits. Fire's real main purpose is ki generation.

Anyways, in all seriousness, 12/6/2, or 12/8?

[kachin1]

Hi mate, i haven't played druid very long (only lvl 16 at the moment) first life, also my first character, as such i probably know less than nothing, but i have been using https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...asi-tank-build since the beginning, and i can say it rocks, if i can stay alive anybody can lol.

I usually ring of fire with fire elemental form and run in and melee everything, i think i have only died about 4 times, so its great for survivablity.

Plus he also has a youtube channel in the link, explaining everything

Hope this helps

[Seikojin]

I can't recall from my druid life, but I think monk stances are broken in animal form. If they are, you should skip taking monk period if you want melee wolves. My old plan for melee wolf was 12/6/2 druid/wiz/rogue, iconic shadar kai. Chains in wolf form, ek from wiz, and decent doublestrike, etc from wolf stuff. I didn't do the iconic, but after a bit, I was pretty strong and it was fun looking like a wolf with a ghost in armor riding me.

[Lonnbeimnech]

If you want a nice non exploit druid build.

13 druid 6 monk 1 rogue staff build in fire elemental form.

Might also be able to do something with 15 druid 5 bard swashbucler in fire elemental form.

If you are thinking wolf form, well you will still get 20% off hands even without the twf feats, and that's not WAI either, so...

[Zachski]

I can't recall from my druid life, but I think monk stances are broken in animal form. If they are, you should skip taking monk period if you want melee wolves. My old plan for melee wolf was 12/6/2 druid/wiz/rogue, iconic shadar kai. Chains in wolf form, ek from wiz, and decent doublestrike, etc from wolf stuff. I didn't do the iconic, but after a bit, I was pretty strong and it was fun looking like a wolf with a ghost in armor riding me.

The main reason I want to take Monk is for the 1.5[W] or the 2[W] to unarmed, actually, which would apply to Wolf/Bear attacks.

@kachin1

I'm actually running a Gingerspyce druid on another server Very fun caster, but I'm looking for an animal form druid, actually.

As far as getting 20% offhand while in wolf form, there's nothing I can do about that. And if there's nothing I can do about it, it doesn't violate my code of conduct.

Kinda like how a Paladin ends up saving the world with something the party rogue stole from a Barony without his knowing, vs. the paladin encouraging the rogue to steal from everybody.

[unbongwah]

Any of the existing "exploit-y" TWF wolf builds can be adapted simply by dropping the TWF feats (with the commensurate DPS loss, ofc). Then you can go Drunken Wolf (SWF+Natural Fighting+stance) or S&B Wolf (Shield Mastery+Natural Fighting) or SWF w/orb Wolf. Raging Wolf is an option, as Ravager Crit Rage applies to wolf form; but can't cast spells while Raged and I think that includes wolf atks.

[Munkenmo]

9 druid, 11 ranger

progression 1-9 druid, 10-20 ranger

Feats:
1 power attack
3 cleave
6 great cleave
9 natural fighting
12 improved crit bludgeoning
15 natural fighting
18 natural fighting.
21 overwhelming critical
24 empower healing
27 blinding speed

[Munkenmo]

SWF is okay because that's working as intended for animal forms.

How do you figure this to be the case, whilst writing off 2wf as an exploit. The only combat style feats meant to work in animal forms is the natural fighting chain.

SWF/TWF/probably even S&B should provide no bonuses to animal forms, please explain how one style is working as intended when the others aren't?

[Zachski]

How do you figure this to be the case, whilst writing off 2wf as an exploit. The only combat style feats meant to work in animal forms is the natural fighting chain.

SWF/TWF/probably even S&B should provide no bonuses to animal forms, please explain how one style is working as intended when the others aren't?

I think I remember one of the devs saying that the attack speed increase (which is all you really get out of SWF for Animal Forms) is not a glitch.

If you're wanting a citation, though, I'm afraid you're out of luck, and I'm not up to hunting the forums for it.

I mean, Shield Mastery feats, in regards to doublestrike, also work with Druid's animal form, have been since the Druid was created, and THAT was considered to be WAI.

It's TWF that's not supposed to be working with animal form. And TWF isn't supposed to work with SWF either.

[Blackheartox]

How do you figure this to be the case, whilst writing off 2wf as an exploit. The only combat style feats meant to work in animal forms is the natural fighting chain.

SWF/TWF/probably even S&B should provide no bonuses to animal forms, please explain how one style is working as intended when the others aren't?

I totally agree with this statement.

Natural fight should be the only style working for wolf and bear form, and it should maybe get buffed to be on par with current combat sytles

[Zachski]

I totally agree with this statement.

Natural fight should be the only style working for wolf and bear form, and it should maybe get buffed to be on par with current combat sytles

That would be nice, but remember, they made Shield Mastery's doublestrike bonus work with animal forms on purpose. Not so with TWF, which only started working with the form as a bug.

[Avocado]

My personal build which is fairly basic and doesnt rely on any broken animal form mechanics: 15dru/3rog/2wiz. It's a sword and board doublestrike build can really pump out the "mad deeps." 15 druid for heal. 3 rogue for 7d6 extra sneak attack (5d6 if not shadar-kai) ,traps and evasion. 2 wizard for 10 prr, 10% ac, 3% doublestrike and martial wep prof. Total base doublestrike with no PLs is 53%. PRR is 114. AC is 120 ish. He is mainly a blitzer but also works very well in DC. If you're interested I will post the build.

[Zachski]

My personal build which is fairly basic and doesnt rely on any broken animal form mechanics: 15dru/3rog/2wiz. It's a sword and board doublestrike build can really pump out the "mad deeps." 15 druid for heal. 3 rogue for 7d6 extra sneak attack (5d6 if not shadar-kai) ,traps and evasion. 2 wizard for 10 prr, 10% ac, 3% doublestrike and martial wep prof. Total base doublestrike with no PLs is 53%. PRR is 114. AC is 120 ish. He is mainly a blitzer but also works very well in DC. If you're interested I will post the build.

15 Druid?

Sure!

I'm afraid I don't have any iconics, though.

[mezzorco]

I'd go dwarf 16drd/4ftr, sword and board tanky build. Stats 16 8 18 10 16 6 (32pt)

Fighter gives 3 extra feats, tower shield proficiency, heavy armor proficiency and stalwart defender tree.
You'll end up having tons of PRR/MRR from tower shield and dragonplate heavy armor, plus stalwart defender will give stance bonuses (+3 saves, +25 PRR/MRR, +6 STR, +20% hp, +10% movement speed).
You have access to lvl 8 spells both for heals and nosave spells.

I prefer dwarf over Human for flavour, extra hp, +5 saves vs spells, +3 tactical DC (takedown), but human can be healed more easily.

Feats: Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Imp Crit: bludg, Empower Heal, 3x Natural Fighting (if human, extra feat of your choice).

This will be my next life, hope it helps


EDIT: a better split would be 15drd/4ftr/1cle for Divine Might, but I consider it exploiting a class feature, expecially on a non-cha build


EDIT2: some maths
PRR: 26 from bab (lvl 28), 45 from heavy armor, 15 from tower shield, 15 from feats, 25 from stalwart defender, 16 from a sheltering blue augment
-> 142 PRR for a 58.7% damage reduction (41.3% taken)
MRR: 45 from heavy armor, 15 from tower shield, 25 from stalwart defender, 16 from a sheltering blue augment
-> 101 MRR *2.0 (from wielding a tower shield) --> 202 MRR for a 66.9% damage reduction (33.1% taken) on a failed reflex save (16.5% taken on a save)

[richieelias27]

They did fix SWF + TWF though but THAT was stupidly powerful.

Unless you mean they are fixing it in update 23, this still works.

[unbongwah]

9 druid, 11 ranger

OP said he wanted a build which didn't take advantage of the TWF bug / exploit. This is...kinda the exact opposite of that request.

The only combat style feats meant to work in animal forms is the natural fighting chain.

Shield Mastery feats have always applied to animal forms. This is WAI.

Monk stances have always applied to animal forms. This is WAI.

TWF feats have applied to animal forms since U19 PrE overhaul. This is confirmed as not WAI, but it's been over a year and it still hasn't been fixed.

The only one up in the air is SWF: I think Zachski is right and a dev confirmed it's WAI (i.e., you get the atk speed bonus but not the extra dmg); but I can't find that post, either.

I'd go dwarf 16drd/4ftr, sword and board tanky build.

Unless you really need the extra spell slots from druid 16, I'd prefer druid 15 / ftr 4 with a splash of something else, like wiz for free metamagic or cleric / FvS for Div Might.