Enhancement feedback project, volume 8: Monk

[HatsuharuZ]

This thread is for discussing monk enhancements. Any comments are appreciated. I'd especially welcome suggestions for possible changes to my formatting. I hope this is easy for everyone to read.

Also, please note that not *all* monk enhancements will be listed here, just the ones that are significant (to me) in some way. There is no point in making comments on Action Boosts or skill-increasing enhancements, for instance, since everyone knows what they do, and most of the time they work. The only enhancements I'll talk about are the ones I think need to be changed, or are especially useful or interesting.

General comments:
Monks, like Clerics, were given a lot of good class enhancements in the enhancement tree system. Not a lot of 'duds', and monks already have a lot of powerful class abilities.


Henshin Mystic

Comments: This tree is kind of odd. For one thing, it focuses a lot on force and fire. Force isn't a problem, but having only fire-element abilities limits the usefulness of these abilities in some content. It would be awesome if the "fire" portion of ki bolt, incinerating wave and cauldron of flame could be changed somehow via a toggle into cold, electric or acid damage.

[Core Abilties]

1) Ki Bolt

Comments: Does damage that scales with monk level and weakens the saves of the target. Nice.

2) Incinerating Wave

Comments: A flying firewall.

3) Cauldron of Flame

Comments: There are two limits on the usefulness of this ability: First, the user must expend a Mediation use in order to use it. Secondly, moving causes the ability to shut off. So, if you move for any reason, such as being knocked back, then you've just wasted a meditation use, of which you can have up to 5 per rest. I would suggest removing *1* of the these two limitations. Either make this ability not use up meditation charges, or make it an aura similar to Body of the Sun.

4) Serenity

Comments: This capstone is okay, as capstones go. I would suggest putting the +1 passive ki generation in all of the monks capstones, though, since it used to be the only monk capstone under the old enhancement system.

[Tier 1]

1) Elemental Words ----> Void Strike

Comments: As a monk under the old enhancement system, I discovered that I could do more damage by not using these at all, and instead using a ki ability that does elemental damage. Also, Void Strike is not affected by any of the elemental words, so why are they a prerequisite?

2) Mystic Training

Comments: It says it affects finishing moves, but does it affect other DC-based ki abilities as well? I haven't tested it.

3) Animal Forms

Comments: I am so happy that these scale with level, but don't cost any extra AP!

[Tier 2]

No Comments

[Tier 3]

1) Lighting the Candle

Comments: Useful. However, it makes generating ki harder.

2) Embrace The Void

Comments: Extra meditation uses are good to have for some abilities. However, I don't the abilities that require meditating in the middle of combat are commonly used. I can think of a few places where they would be, but all of those are in raids.

[Tier 4]

1) Focus

Comments: Useful or useless? Depends on your playstyle.

[Tier 5]

Balance in Dawn

Comments: Two choices here, and both are really potent and do not have saves.


Ninja Spy

Comments: I have not played around with these much. If anyone knows which enemies are immune to Ninja Poison, I'd love to know.

[Core Abilties]

1) Basic Ninja Training ----> Advanced Ninja Training

Comments: I think that daggers should be made into ki weapons, and have the same benefits that shortswords get. It would give the tree some synergy with the Assassin tree.

2) Shadow Veil

Comments: Very useful.

3) Poisoned Darts

Comments: I think it should give more stacks of ninja poison.

4) Diversion

Comments: Lots of restrictions on this one. I would suggest lowering the ki cost a bit. It's a last-ditch defensive ability, after all.

5) Ninja Master

Comments: Add +1 passive ki generation to this.

[Tier 1]

1) Ninjutsu

Comments: Poison Soul works too slowly, and Impending Doom isn't very useful, since I have to spend ki to get ki.

[Tier 2]

No comments

[Tier 3]

1) Flash Bang

Comments: Nice.

[Tier 4]

1) Deadly Exploits

Comments: Potentially very useful.

[Tier 5]

1) Shadow Double

Comments: I've seen other enhancements similar to this, but they all have longer cooldowns.


Shintao Monk

Comments: This tree is dedicated mostly to durability, healing and other paladin-like abilities. Also, the best tree for fighting unarmed. Unusually, it's a very top-heavy tree.

[Core Abilities]

1) Protection From Tainted Creatures

Comments: I'm glad the devs made the AC and saves bonuses stacking bonuses.

2) Touch The Void Dragon

Comments: If one is wearing insightful stat gear in epic levels, it's possible to not get any benefit from this. Meh.

3) To Seek Perfection

Comments: Add +1 passive ki generation to this capstone.

[Tier 1]

1) Reed In The Wind

Comments: An enhancement with a feat prerequisite should be more powerful than this.

2) Ki Shout

Comments: Like intimidate, but uses concentration instead.

[Tier 2]

1) Iron Skin

Comments: I wish my armor-wearing characters had that much PRR in heroic levels.

[Tier 3]

1) Jade Strike

Comments: One of my favorites.

2) Dismissing Strike

Comments: Another favorite!

[Tier 4]

1) Tomb of Jade

Comments: I've made more than a few garden statues with this~

2) Instinctive Defense

Comments: I'm not sure if this is worth 2 AP per tier. Monks have the best saves and balance as a class skill, after all.

[Tier 5]

1) Rise Of The Pheonix

Comments: Expensive, but it lets you resurrect yourself. I think it holds the record for "ability with the longest cooldown", though.

2) Kukan-Do

Comments: A ranged stunning attack.

3) Violence Begets Violence

Comments: Interesting.

4) Meditation of War

Comments: In the case of Air and Water stances, the benefits from this ability are outweighed by the debuffs. Fire and Earth are acceptable, though.

5) Empty Hand Mastery

Comments: Wow.

[Mosasi]

For the record: Meditation of War - Fire Stance bonus grants a +2 bonus to DC's for stun/trip/sunder, but since Fire Stance has a -2 Wis penalty, the actual benefit of Meditation of War for fire stance becomes +2 damage, +1 to DC of stun/trip/sunder

Which imo just makes meditation of war even less desirable as a T5 enhancement.

[assimilateur]

+1 to DC of stun/trip/sunder

Only stunning fist is wisdom-based. Stunning blow, trip, and sunder are all strength-based so you're not getting short-changed there.

[TeacherSyn]

There are far too many items for me to discuss on the whys of certain abilities and class trees. Not all classes or trees will master everything. That said, each tree has a specialization--a specific playstyle that maximizes the class talent. If you ignore that point, you get much of the list you've made.

The Ninja Spy (combined with the stealth AI change) makes for a powerful Assassin-like character that is a better scout than a Rogue Assassin in that they can outgun what they cannot outrun--if they are detected at all. Ninja Poison is a magical poison--only demons/devils and some constructs are generally immune from this potent DOT effect that not only stacks to 20 DoTs (in the early 100s of poison damage per second) but increases their vulnerabilities to poison. I've killed many a dragon from Ninja Poison, and many other Red Named Monsters are taken down very thoroughly with this effect, with poisoning weapons accelerating it. Poisoning goes in addition to the ninja's greater shortsword prowess, a seriously powerful throwing option with stars, and the negative energy damage/vulnerabilities you get with their finishers, right up to the Touch of Death. And you vorpal everything with shortswords and stars at level 20 core training.

If you do not take advantage of some of the stealth and poison options, the Ninja Spy is weakest of all the Monk class trees since it has weaker defenses. If you fail to add enough DEX, you'll also have a weaker character.

The Henshin Mystic weaponizes ki unlike all other trees. It's designed to be a dervish, to harass and whittle at mobs by lobbing ki-based fire and force damage for as long as it has ki (which is long, since you're also throwing powerful staff attacks with the right melee feats such as Cleave). I had my reservations about the Fire and Force-only damage but in practice this works better than you think. Only devils/demons and some elementals are immune to fire but the Force damage spellpower can really be boosted to compensate, as well the right staff to take things down. While a Mystic will never have the spell power of a mage, they're not supposed to, since their staff attacks are extremely powerful with some of the best critical hit damage of any non-unarmed Monk (and many unarmed Monks) over time, and ki is quite renewable, while mana potion supplies and shrines will be exhausted. In Epic, the use of Legendary Dreadnought make these very powerful characters. Since ki is generated by fighting, the Mystic purposely has the better passive ki regeneration options and more Meditations than others (not that you can't add two of these to increase it for other trees with a little AP). Cauldron of Flame is a stand-your-ground attack that's great in narrow places such as a doorway, as an Artificer would use a Flame Turret.

If you keep ki-intensive abilities like Lighting the Candle on at early levels, you're doing it wrong. You need to master your ki management. If you play a Mystic like a stunbot Monk, you're in for a disappointment. If you don't concentrate on maneuverability and try to tank with a Mystic, you'll have problems.

The Shintao Monk now is tanking-aligned. You've noted most of the advantages and strengths. The downside is that the class tree isn't necessarily the most powerful of the three but certainly the most durable.

[Violith]

For the record: Meditation of War - Fire Stance bonus grants a +2 bonus to DC's for stun/trip/sunder, but since Fire Stance has a -2 Wis penalty, the actual benefit of Meditation of War for fire stance becomes +2 damage, +1 to DC of stun/trip/sunder

Which imo just makes meditation of war even less desirable as a T5 enhancement.

also, as an insight bonus. The +2 to stun/trip/sunder DC's doesnt stack with exceptional combat mastery items. which you can get a +2 except combat mastery item at lvl 7. and this is a lvl 12 ability.

[HatsuharuZ]

There are far too many items for me to discuss on the whys of certain abilities and class trees. Not all classes or trees will master everything. That said, each tree has a specialization--a specific playstyle that maximizes the class talent. If you ignore that point, you get much of the list you've made.

The Ninja Spy (combined with the stealth AI change) makes for a powerful Assassin-like character that is a better scout than a Rogue Assassin in that they can outgun what they cannot outrun--if they are detected at all. Ninja Poison is a magical poison--only demons/devils and some constructs are generally immune from this potent DOT effect that not only stacks to 20 DoTs (in the early 100s of poison damage per second) but increases their vulnerabilities to poison. I've killed many a dragon from Ninja Poison, and many other Red Named Monsters are taken down very thoroughly with this effect, with poisoning weapons accelerating it. Poisoning goes in addition to the ninja's greater shortsword prowess, a seriously powerful throwing option with stars, and the negative energy damage/vulnerabilities you get with their finishers, right up to the Touch of Death. And you vorpal everything with shortswords and stars at level 20 core training.

If you do not take advantage of some of the stealth and poison options, the Ninja Spy is weakest of all the Monk class trees since it has weaker defenses. If you fail to add enough DEX, you'll also have a weaker character.

The Henshin Mystic weaponizes ki unlike all other trees. It's designed to be a dervish, to harass and whittle at mobs by lobbing ki-based fire and force damage for as long as it has ki (which is long, since you're also throwing powerful staff attacks with the right melee feats such as Cleave). I had my reservations about the Fire and Force-only damage but in practice this works better than you think. Only devils/demons and some elementals are immune to fire but the Force damage spellpower can really be boosted to compensate, as well the right staff to take things down. While a Mystic will never have the spell power of a mage, they're not supposed to, since their staff attacks are extremely powerful with some of the best critical hit damage of any non-unarmed Monk (and many unarmed Monks) over time, and ki is quite renewable, while mana potion supplies and shrines will be exhausted. In Epic, the use of Legendary Dreadnought make these very powerful characters. Since ki is generated by fighting, the Mystic purposely has the better passive ki regeneration options and more Meditations than others (not that you can't add two of these to increase it for other trees with a little AP). Cauldron of Flame is a stand-your-ground attack that's great in narrow places such as a doorway, as an Artificer would use a Flame Turret.

If you keep ki-intensive abilities like Lighting the Candle on at early levels, you're doing it wrong. You need to master your ki management. If you play a Mystic like a stunbot Monk, you're in for a disappointment. If you don't concentrate on maneuverability and try to tank with a Mystic, you'll have problems.

The Shintao Monk now is tanking-aligned. You've noted most of the advantages and strengths. The downside is that the class tree isn't necessarily the most powerful of the three but certainly the most durable.

Thank you, that was very informative!

I have a few questions, though:

1) You listed devils, demons and some constructs as being immune to N.S. poison. How about undead?

2) How does one take advantage of the stealth options?

[TeacherSyn]

Thank you, that was very informative!

I have a few questions, though:

1) You listed devils, demons and some constructs as being immune to N.S. poison. How about undead?

2) How does one take advantage of the stealth options?

Many enemies with powerful poison attacks of their own and possessing supernatural abilities, such as pit fiends like Arraetrikos, are flat-out immune to poison and often have dangerous poison attacks of their own. Same is true for most pure devils and demons of Sharavath, although Tieflings, being part human, aren't immune. Others, such as medusas, aren't immune but can have fatal poisons if not immediately treated.

Surprisingly, some undead aren't immune. While skeletons, being magically animated, shrug off poisons, some more fleshy undead such as wights seem affected at times. I'll pay closer attention to these effects.

Pure constructs such as iron golems aren't alive and so poison has no effect, although they have poison attacks of their own. Living constructs like Warforged can be affected by some poisons.

Ninja Poison is a magical poison, which is why it might affect the magically-imbued Warforged but not pure constructs.

You can read more about how poison works in the game here.

I've been contributing to the Sneak article on DDO Wiki that sums up the basics of the new (awesome) stealth system that allows much more realistic use of Sneak, including escaping if detected. It will give you the basics. You just need high points in Hide/Move Silently and to wear light or no armor for best effect. Invisibility is a bonus but isn't a panacea.

The Ninja Spy's new enhancements directly point to the use of Hide, Move Silently skills combined with ninja invisibility to make it arguably the best infiltrator in-game. For another example, there's one core ability, Diversion, that creates a hate-magnet training dummy and makes you invisible simultaneously to allow emergency escape.

You also visit my blog where I'm currently writing about Kiricletica, a Ninja Spy that's trying to complete the entire game without any hirelings or party members, ever, using stealth, but also restricting kills to the minimum.