Test: Human Ra11/W5/C4

[Feithlin]

I have a character who already had a Ranger life and that I TRed into Wizard. With the LR+20, I plan to convert this wizard life into another ranger life, to cumulate the ranged PL, as soon as I'm finished leveling his DI and Magister EDs. At first, I thought about doing a Ra12/Bd8, for some easy buffs and the awesome fascinate/enthrallment. But with the release of Warpriest and EK, I started to think about something weirder, namely Ra11/W5/C4, with this in mind:
* Wiz5 gives me haste and displacement
* C4 gives DM and Smite weakness, which works very well w/ ranger TWF and doublestrikes.

With all this, distributing AP becomes very tight. So far, I have thought about these combinations:
* DWS 26 AP (Killer), Tempest 36 AP (1k Cuts & iEvasion), WP 11 AP (Smite weakness), RS 4 AP (Scroll mast.) & Human 3 AP
* DWS 26 AP (Killer), Tempest 36 AP (1k Cuts & iEvasion), EK 12 AP (Spellsword & iShield), AA 3 AP (infinite arrows) & Human 3 AP
* DWS 26 AP (Killer), Tempest 12 AP (Haste boost & Tempest), WP 11 AP, EK 12 AP, and one of:
- AM 11 AP (Displac. SLA), AA 3 AP, Human 5 AP
- Human 17 AP (30% HA) and 2 free AP
- Human 12 AP (20% HA), AA 3 AP and 4 free AP
- Increase WP to 22 AP (Ameliorating strike), AA 3 AP & Human 5 AP

What are your thoughts about it? Do you see other interesting combinations? Other interesting classes splits that would include a majority of ranger levels (for PL), human and neutral (i.e. no paladin or monk)?

[unbongwah]

If you're not going for Ameliorating Strike, I don't see what cleric 4 gets you, in which case rgr 12 for +10% offhand from Tempest makes way more sense.

[Feithlin]

If you're not going for Ameliorating Strike, I don't see what cleric 4 gets you, in which case rgr 12 for +10% offhand from Tempest makes way more sense.

Yes, this is what I must decide. It's one of the options. I'm just not sure about which to choose.

[Aerendil]

Yes, this is what I must decide. It's one of the options. I'm just not sure about which to choose.

I'd go with Ameliorating, personally. So far the concept of EK is cool, but in practice all reports rate it as "meh".
Whereas the melee/Warpriest combination is already known to work, and to work well (see Kensai/Warpriest thread in the Fighter forums).

In fact, the Tempest/Warpriest version may even be better, since:
- you're 100% guaranteed to get double procs in. Using my evoker FVS as an example, he gets about 160ish hp healed, so you'd be getting double that. Throw in Cocoon, and you're laughing for heals. If you went longsword spec, you'd also have Unyielding Sovereignty for those "oh ****" moments.
- you're not going to miss any T5 Tempest abilities by going full Warpriest for Divine Power (which should combine nicely with FoTW's shout
- Wall of Steel combines nicely with Improved Parry
- you're less likely to dump stat Wis, and may even have a Devotion item already slotted (if not, it's worth it for Ameloriating).

This is a tempting build, actually. If longsword-specced, you could be running around with +13 enhancement Tinahs...

[unbongwah]

I had a couple of ideas based on the Battleragers thread: one was rgr 12 / cleric 7 / <splash> 1, which let you choose between auras (RS), Divine Vessel + Wrathful Weapons (WP), or Evasive Dance (Tempest); the other was rgr 12 / FvS 6 / <splash> 2 - someone said Divine Vessel (WP) could cause Just Reward (AoV) to proc, so I wanted to test that out. Either way, you get 100% offhand procs and MS+IPS from rgr 12; and Ameliorating Strikes from WP for free heals every 15 secs (if maddmatt's thread is correct, you can get ~200 HPs per proc which effectively means 400 HPs every time you hit on Tempest II).

You can get get extra PRR from WP (+10) and Tempest (+10), putting you at ~35 PRR at endgame w/just lt armor; add Guardian's Ring and PFP and you should hit 75 PRR (~34% dmg mitigation) w/Divine Power active (for max BAB) if I'm adding right. Between AS & Rejuv Cocoon, either build ought to be able to plow thru EN/EH content easily and be relatively hard to kill in EE (knock on wood).

[Feithlin]

Interesting thoughts so far, thanks. I will probably head for WP and let EK apart.
The idea of Divine Vessel + Just Reward is interesting; it should be quick to reach 25 strikes w/ ranger's TWF and doublestrikes.
About favored weapons, I'm a bit unsure. Is the bad crit profile of longswords (it would be in comparison to scimis) compensated by the various bonuses? I have some doubts about it.

[unbongwah]

IIUC, only Righteous / Wrathful Weapons requires using your deity's favored weapon; everything else works fine with any weapon. So if you can find enough things to spend your APs on in WP, you can use whatever weapons you like and still get Divine Vessel. [Caveat: haven't actually tested this.]

[Aerendil]

Been thinking about this build, and one other thing to consider is that Smite Weakness gets double-procs from TWF if both weapons hit (and as RNG12, both weapons should always swing). So you're looking at a stacking 8-14% vulnerability every 15sec. So 30sec into a fight, your enemy *could* be sitting around 28% vulnerability. One minute in, if the monster survives that long, it could be over 50% vulnerability.

Could be quite deadly when coupled with Unbridled Fury. Or even as an AA - smack an enemy with Smite, switch to Bow -> Pin -> Unbridled -> Manyshot.
Ewww.

[mna]

In fact, the Tempest/Warpriest version may even be better, since:
- you're 100% guaranteed to get double procs in. Using my evoker FVS as an example, he gets about 160ish hp healed, so you'd be getting double that. Throw in Cocoon, and you're laughing for heals. If you went longsword spec, you'd also have Unyielding Sovereignty for those "oh ****" moments.
- you're not going to miss any T5 Tempest abilities by going full Warpriest for Divine Power (which should combine nicely with FoTW's shout

Actually, speaking of T5 Tempest... assuming you DO take those and hit 10k cuts, then Dance of Death, and THEN smite, how many procs can you get?
(It looks quite possible to get all those, but whether it makes any sense to do so is another thing... especially as AS doesn't seem to hurt nearby undead, according to my quick testing in Mabar. That "could have been" fun, but...)


I'm thinking about possibly (maybe) going mostly Tempest/Warpriest on one of my drow 12/6/2-plan cleric/ranger/rogues at some point, with shortswords... and I'll only get up to 90% offhand rate anyway.
(Should be nice if the racial tree ever gets fixed...)


What I find most annoying here is that you can't go Silver Flame and then Manyshot-Smite.

[Choopak]

I had a couple of ideas ... one was rgr 12 / cleric 7 / <splash> 1, which let you choose between auras (RS), Divine Vessel + Wrathful Weapons (WP), or Evasive Dance (Tempest); the other was rgr 12 / FvS 6 / <splash> 2 - someone said Divine Vessel (WP) could cause Just Reward (AoV) to proc, so I wanted to test that out. Either way, you get 100% offhand procs and MS+IPS from rgr 12; and Ameliorating Strikes from WP for free heals every 15 secs (if maddmatt's thread is correct, you can get ~200 HPs per proc which effectively means 400 HPs every time you hit on Tempest II).

You can get get extra PRR from WP (+10) and Tempest (+10), putting you at ~35 PRR at endgame w/just lt armor; add Guardian's Ring and PFP and you should hit 75 PRR (~34% dmg mitigation) w/Divine Power active (for max BAB) if I'm adding right. Between AS & Rejuv Cocoon, either build ought to be able to plow thru EN/EH content easily and be relatively hard to kill in EE (knock on wood).

Why 12 ranger? 11 is enough, or am i missing something? a rgr 11/ cle 4/ fgt 4 could be deadly! with both WP and kensai goodies, plus a tons of feats! Using long sword = lots of synergy.
Hummm tempting, you'll even get a meaningful range attack (manyshot)

[unbongwah]

Why 12 ranger? 11 is enough, or am i missing something? a rgr 11/ cle 4/ fgt 4 could be deadly!

Rgr 12 gets you +10% offhand from Tempest core. Also, 11 + 4 + 4 = 19, so you still have a level left over for rgr 12 anyway. Although I find myself leaning toward rgr 12 / cleric or FvS 6 / pal 2; Divine Grace is really helpful in epics on toons with high (or even mediocre) CHA. Cleric / FvS is mostly for WP access, but you still gain a couple of nice buffs, like Divine Favor.

with both WP and kensai goodies, plus a tons of feats! Using long sword = lots of synergy.

Longswords are still a mediocre DPS choice: Oathblade is decent for ML:20 and relatively easy to acquire; but the other CitW weapons are superior to it or Tinah. Plus what's interesting to me about using deity weapons isn't Righteous Weapons, which is just +1 per tier, but Wrathful Weapons; that req's at least 5 cleric/FvS lvls and T5 enh, though.

[Choopak]

Rgr 12 gets you +10% offhand from Tempest core. Also, 11 + 4 + 4 = 19, so you still have a level left over for rgr 12 anyway. Although I find myself leaning toward rgr 12 / cleric or FvS 6 / pal 2; Divine Grace is really helpful in epics on toons with high (or even mediocre) CHA. Cleric / FvS is mostly for WP access, but you still gain a couple of nice buffs, like Divine Favor.

Longswords are still a mediocre DPS choice: Oathblade is decent for ML:20 and relatively easy to acquire; but the other CitW weapons are superior to it or Tinah. Plus what's interesting to me about using deity weapons isn't Righteous Weapons, which is just +1 per tier, but Wrathful Weapons; that req's at least 5 cleric/FvS lvls and T5 enh, though.

Sorry for confusion, i meant rgr11/ cle5/ fgt4, for 20 levels. I know longsword are still average DPS, but the synergy is there with weapon of faith.
And i see your point on rgr12 now... +10% is juicy