Three boxing advice?

[Greyhawk6]

Tried three boxing last night just to see if it was both possible and playable however I ran into some problems running three clients on one comp.

The main problem was the constant HD accessing plus the extremely long load times. Normally this game loads zones really quickly but with three clients - even zoning one at a time I can be sat with an empty load bar for 5 minutes or more. The Marketplace is especially bad.

I'm running one client on each monitor in the lowest possible detail setting and its practically unplayable. My machine is no slouch - I can run 4 Everquest 2 instances with no lag, slowdown or time delay in zoning - zoning all clients at once easily.

Has anyone else tried this and found a setting which runs things adequately? I'm not using any scripts and whatnot to run my toons, just using the other accounts to get some xp, more loot chances and farm guild xp drops when things are quiet.

Game looks really cool on three monitors when I'm just running one client by the way

[Zenako]

Well when I "three box", I use the brute force method. New Gaming machine, next to the old gaming machine and the laptop hookup and sitting nearby. Runs fine that way... Now I have heard a lot of people have gotten two clients going without issues, and it seems you can too, but do not recall anyone trying to do a 3 in 1 like you are. I suspect the load on the memory in your system might be too much, and you are seeing a lot of file swapping or virtual memory having to be used and that often slows things down a lot. Does it get worse and worse as you run? There are some memory type leaks still kicking around from what I see as the client keeps getting bigger over time on my machine when I check. Doing 3 at once will probably magnify that problem even more.

[karpedieme]

I'm running one client on each monitor in the lowest possible detail setting and its practically unplayable. My machine is no slouch - I can run 4 Everquest 2 instances with no lag, slowdown or time delay in zoning - zoning all clients at once easily.

Game looks really cool on three monitors when I'm just running one client by the way

Your post is confusing.....

So what is it 3 clients or just 1?

DDO is pretty much an anomaly for multi-boxing. Since most other MMO's have you log onto a server account and most information is processed from the server itself with files on your CPU.

EX: WOW with battlenet accounts can run up to 6-8 accounts at once with very little performance issues.

DDO runs off pretty much on all stored files in your hard drive as a static client... It spools info from your computer and shares with the server from what I have come to understand. Running multiples can be very ressource intensive with 2 clients and imagine even more so with 3 clients running all that raw data shared with DDO servers.

I can run 2 clients with max graphics setting and zero performance issues on my main machine. 2 seperate clients have been installed ( copying your main DDO folder as renamed can work and respects the EULA as well its not a manipulated form of the original files)

I tend to run 2 on my main box and 1 on a laptop. I tend to run 2 boxes as active and have become accustomed and enjoy running multiples in shroud and see if anyone notices. None pike all participate all parts too

I can suggest possibly running an original DDO file folder renamed and off a USB 2.0 drive key this has in many cases helped some *** performance issues ran a smoother base client.

Hope this helps and enjoy the multi-boxing environment.

Laters

[GeneralDiomedes]

Telling us your computer is 'no slouch' doesn't tell us anything. Need more specifics, especially the amount of RAM. I am guessing you need about 12 GB of RAM to run three clients without major swapping issues as I barely can run two with 8 GB.

I occasionally triple box, but when I do the third client is on a laptop.

[Greyhawk6]

I run three clients on one box with one client per monitor or one client on all three monitors. I have three game installations on my main drive.

Two boxing I have two clients on two monitors and DDO wiki open on the third.

No fault of the game if its slow since it's never been designed to run this way but was just wondering if anyone had a tip for running it with better performance. I have 6GB memory but I guess its the video card memory that might be suffering.

[GeneralDiomedes]

I have 6GB memory

DDO is a memory hog .. I would increase this to 8 GB at least, preferably 12 GB.

Other possibilities for improving performance

- Add 16 GB and copy the DDO files for one of those instances to a RAM drive (see https://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=365842)
- Add an SSD and run all DDO instances off that drive as well as your swap partition. I run DDO off an SSD and experience no client lag that I am aware of.

[Bogenbroom]

I run a similar config to what you are shooting for except that I am running on one-monitor. Mine is a Dell XPS laptop with 8 Gig of RAM. It is about 2 years old now.

My opinion is RAM. 8 Gigs at least for 3 clients.

My experience is that initial load times going into the game are awful, yes. But once in game they really are not too bad. Periodically it does jump up, especially if I have all three loading into a zone at the same time... especially if it is someplace like the Marketplace. Even then, though, 30, maybe 45 seconds on a really bad load.

The thing I can't speak to is what the impact of running three separate monitors versus 3 overlapping instances might be. I am sure it wouldn't impact the initial game load, and probably not instance loading, but might impact game play.

[Bogenbroom]

- Add an SSD and run all DDO instances off that drive as well as your swap partition. I run DDO off an SSD and experience no client lag that I am aware of.

Really? I have been hesitant to go in that direction, because I fear the failure rate of those drives with disk intensive apps. Has that improved?

I thought SSDs were great in arrays, but stand-alone too risky... but will admit I haven't looked into that in a good while.

[Yamato-San]

Your video card memory is another bottleneck.
in my case (1GB graphic card), i have to lower the graphic settings and the resolution (play in windowed mode and resize the windows) for a smooth run or suffer permanent disc lag.

[cdr]

I have a decent video card, 8GB ram, SSD, single install of DDO w/pyLOTRO launcher. I can run 6 clients at once on low graphics with no issue.

Really? I have been hesitant to go in that direction, because I fear the failure rate of those drives with disk intensive apps. Has that improved?

I thought SSDs were great in arrays, but stand-alone too risky... but will admit I haven't looked into that in a good while.

This is completely untrue. High-quality SSDs (Intel, Crucial, etc) are extremely reliable. And DDO is in no way "disk intensive", the only time it does any large number of writes is when it updates.

[squishwizzy]

Tried three boxing last night just to see if it was both possible and playable however I ran into some problems running three clients on one comp.

The main problem was the constant HD accessing plus the extremely long load times. Normally this game loads zones really quickly but with three clients - even zoning one at a time I can be sat with an empty load bar for 5 minutes or more. The Marketplace is especially bad.

I'm running one client on each monitor in the lowest possible detail setting and its practically unplayable. My machine is no slouch - I can run 4 Everquest 2 instances with no lag, slowdown or time delay in zoning - zoning all clients at once easily.

Has anyone else tried this and found a setting which runs things adequately? I'm not using any scripts and whatnot to run my toons, just using the other accounts to get some xp, more loot chances and farm guild xp drops when things are quiet.

Game looks really cool on three monitors when I'm just running one client by the way

Your problems are going to be memory, network access, and access to the graphics card.

The type of graphics that runs DDO relies on (essentially) direct access to the graqphics card for speed purposes. Usually, that means 1 game running at a time, and maybe the Windows background stuff (the Desktop) which runs at a slightly lower priority. The desktop is actually fairly removed from direct access to the video card, so the game usually has more speed and more time with the system.

However, depending on who wrote your DirectX drivers (which, for simplicity's sake, is what gives the DDO client direct access to the video card), your performance may be fantastic, or it may be really, really poor. So, that's weak spot number 1.

Memory? Everything else not graphics related (and even some graphicas stuff) gets dumped into main memory. And that can be a lot. What Windows can't hold in main memory gets swapped to disk, and the OS manages that. All of this can create performance lags in any system. So, weakness #2.

Network traffic. Three clients all go through the same pipeline to the DDO servers, and that is your network card. Any Ethernet system, or even wireless for that matter, is nothing more than a high-speed serial port. There is nothing magical about network packets zinging across the wire, and in fact you can indeed overload even a very fast network card. Plus, add to this that you have zero control over the speed of the network packets after they leave your router, and you're going to have a real problem. In fact, probably a bigger problem than memory and the graphics card. Weakness #3 - big time.

My thoughts are your load times are related to network traffic. While I'm no expert on the internals of DDO itself, an extremely chatty app on the network can be problematic. Three of them would probably bring the best PC to its knees.

Plus - and this is somewhat indicative of either graphics and/or network issues - I have a specific problem with lag when I die. Say I'm not watching my HP bar, and I get hit by a Meteor Swarm from a boss, I have no way to move out of the way - the PC lags horribly...and then the next thing I know I'm a soulstone. This could be due to the excessive graphics utilization (which I kinda doubt) OR it could be additional network traffic going back and forth between the server and the client for a brief moment, updating my death status, changing my status on the server, and updating damaged items in my inventory. All of this happens in a burst, which would account for the lag.

So, I'm thinking it is network related. DDO does a lot of communications overhead, and that clogs packets past your switch / router.

[KapnKrunch]

I run 3 boxes without any issue... All off a single install using the method listed here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=365842

Current Specs:
i5 750 stock
8gb ram
2x 560gtx in sli
3x 24" 1920 x 2000 monitors
120gb ocz ssd
Maxed graphics, fast load times.
One ddo window per monitor all running in windowed mode.
Although, the two windows that aren't currently active do look a bit choppy, but the active one is flawless.

Not sure if that helps at all, but upgrading to an ssd is a gargantuan upgrade.

[Greyhawk6]

I sorted my problem - I just played each client in a smaller window

Runs perfectly fine now with three. Though this game isnt exactly multibox friendly, its a good way to fill the wait times waiting for a grp to form. I wouldnt 3 box in a grp unless I warned the grp first amd they said it was ok.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

I quad box normally, but have run six clients on one machine at times. I've primarily been using SSD drives, but I had to swap to a mechanical drive for a while there and it was noticable but nothing serious with what I've found out. However there as some things I'm doing that most people do not.

First off, I'm using one installation. I'm not exactly 100% sure exactly how my method functions (the underlying technical aspects I've never researched but I understand the basics), but changing from multiple installs to my method I noticed a significant increase in performance allowing 6 clients to run at the same time. I discovered and use symlinks for this (vista or 7, no native XP support). Great thing is, one client to update. I could just imagine the downloading for multiple clients for that expansion pack recently.... ouch.

Secondly, one of the things the client checks for is windows names. Change the window name and running another client won't find the previous window.

I was running quad box on an old dual core AMD athlon X2 if I remember. Had a 512MB Nvidia something or other in it (8gb RAM). Four ran choppy (min graphics settings, except for draw distance), and cpu access was hitting 100% frequently. I found a setting in the game itself that helped alleviate it. In the options section, under troubelshooting, there is an option called "engine speed". Turning that down seems to help alleviate some issues.

With Windows 7, I suggest 2gb for your system to run all of it's junk in and 1.5-2gb per client. Running four clients and my RAM usage barely goes above 8gb with all my other **** running like streamed music, IE and other things.

Another thing that has helped me in the past used to be called gamebooster:
http://www.razerzone.com/gamebooster/signup
But Razer bought it up recently and will be free when they are done with it, but currently is in a limited beta of some kind. It has the ability to turn off unused services and things while you game. It really helped out on my old system trying to run 4 clients before I found the "engine speed" setting.

I've written a script that makes all this automatic for me, even resizes and poisitions the windows the way I like it for me. (and no it doesn't violate EULA because it doesn't automate anything in game) But yeah, multiboxing in group is not suggested unless yer crazy insane and the group is okay with it.

[locus]

Are you running them all off of one install? I assume you are - copying the folders over, each for each instance that you want to start up, works better in my experience. I tend to have to close all other programs until DDO(s) load up and then open them back up again. This is most noticeable with firefox being open. Even if it's not using a lot of memory a second DDO instance invariably loads and then loses connection after 5minutes of thinking. Having it on a separate hard drive helps a ton too.

(Oh and sidenote: if you guys think the memory issues are bad in DDO, you should really check out Lotro since it's expansion. At least with DDO killing the client eventually returns your pc to normal, but lotro requires a frequent hard reboot as there are files in use that are never let go (not visible on process explorer, just on shutdown)).

[Greyhawk6]

I'm using three seperate installs

[AtomicMew]

I sometimes run 7-8 boxes for fun. Not because it's practical or anything, but just because it can be fun. The limiting factor is RAM RAM RAM. For 3 boxes, 8 GB RAM is a minimum. With 16 GB, you could probably do ~9 boxes without problem.

I don't believe disk speed is a big factor. The reason your HDD is getting accessed so much is because you're overloading your RAM and the data is being written to the windows page file instead. At that point, it doesn't matter if you're using an old HDD or the fastest and newest SSD, it just isn't fast enough to play DDO.

In short, if you want to three box effectively, get more RAM

[GeneralDiomedes]

And DDO is in no way "disk intensive", the only time it does any large number of writes is when it updates.

Don't the DDO files fragment at the application level over time? Or at least that's a problem I thought the LOTRO defrag tool fixed. That is what I thought the SSD brought - fragmentation is no longer an issue because any sector is equally fast to access.

[Nodoze]

Note: I have seen blue posts on the forum that multi-boxing is legal but never seen an official thumbs up or down whether third party tools that help you manage resources are fine... That being said the tool I have used is www.isboxer.com and my understanding is that "as long as you are at the computer(s) while actively playing you [shouldn]'t be violating any Terms of Service. This topic is often a point of confusion due to "unattended macros" being banned. As long as you are actively playing you [should be able to] run as many characters as you want without fear of being in violation of the rules." That being said I am not a blue gent/lady so I don't make the rules...

www.isboxer.com allows you to run multiple clients from one folder and the run in full screen mode in frames established by the program. You can put the frame windows where you want them (multi-monitor or single monitor) and swap between clients as desired. I run with one main window and have had up to 6 total running easily and you can see mini-versions below or to the side of your main window (or on multiple below and on side). It allows you to throttle the back-ground and fore-ground windows and, for example, you can set the main foreground window to 40fps & back-ground windows to 4fps and it will free up tons of resources. Even when running a single instance I prefer isboxer as without it my laptop would overheat on high settings with no limiting of frame-rates...

The best setup I have come up with is a party of 4 with two active WF Artificers. The 3rd is a wizard who runs up and recon/repair as needed and then recasts rage/haste before the next encounter to keep everyone moving fast. The wizzy can also cast disco ball in the door & web or whatever. With no autofollow melee would be hard but ranged classes are doable.

I basically put one Artificer almost exactly on top of the other and slightly behind and then toggle a button to steer them together simultaneosly. With a toggle button for turning on/off mirroring commands to the 2 windows I can turn mirroring off to reposition as needed and the get going quickly again. In U14 (or before) they finally added "target my targets target" which makes sure they both send their intimidating/evasion pets to the same target and make sure they range on that same target together (tab targeting previously was unreliable). There is a slight delay in turning but you get used to it.

I keep the 4th divine toon in reserve to run up and rez when/if needed.

Hope that helps some of you.

[cdr]

Don't the DDO files fragment at the application level over time? Or at least that's a problem I thought the LOTRO defrag tool fixed. That is what I thought the SSD brought - fragmentation is no longer an issue because any sector is equally fast to access.

Updates "fragment" the DDO dat files, that's what the dat defragment tool was designed to address - moving all the files within the giant dat archive files to sequential order. And yes, dat fragmentation is not really an issue for a SSD, just mechanical HDDs.

The advantage of an SSD with multiboxing is the super-quick random access - a HDD will bog down with all the disk access from multiple clients, but a SSD can handle it swimmingly. There's a ton of advantages for SSDs with gaming.