Of splash and men.

[DeafeningWhisper]

So after reading how people feel on cleric splits I'm suddenly worried about my cleric Tr project.


The plan was cleric 13 monk 6 wiz 1 Helf monkcher AA, while I know this build will be able to deal decent ranged dps while having nice survivability, self healing and the ability to spot heal. I wonder how "PuG friendly" it will be, would you accept such a build? Or reject it on sight?

I want to know how unsightly this build would be, if the people at the forum who know their builds find this unpugable I'll switch to a more standard ranger 14 monk 6 build.

[Raithe]

First, I take anyone who joins my LFM, and anyone with one of the five to seven "bluebar" classes as their primary icon actually makes me breathe a small sigh of relief inside. Not because I necessarily believe their build is superior or good, but because it reflects an ability to distinguish class power discrepancies, an ability to take care of oneself, and/or an ability to handle aggro in more creative methods than just standing there beating it with a stick.

That said, I do not like running some of my multi-classes in PUGs simply due to the annoyance of having to explain myself to them. This would go doubly for anyone with a cleric icon as their primary class. I have plenty of characters, however, so having some characters that are PUGgable and some that aren't doesn't really give me a headache.

[captain1z]

Wouldnt worry about it, If the build works word will spread. The opposite is also true but dont lets player expectations dictate your playstyle. You play for you and thats it, if someone thinks you should be built to match thier standards........let em get a hireling.

On first glance a 13 cleric/ 6monk/ 1wiz looks weird, Id be curious to see what it does but thats just me.
Lets not all forget this game is meant to be fun.

[katz]

you'll be fine in groups.

you'll probably have trouble getting into raids...unless people know you, and/or there are already a primary healer(s) present and you are just bonus DPS/heals.

[DarkForte]

So after reading how people feel on cleric splits I'm suddenly worried about my cleric Tr project.


The plan was cleric 13 monk 6 wiz 1 Helf monkcher AA, while I know this build will be able to deal decent ranged dps while having nice survivability, self healing and the ability to spot heal. I wonder how "PuG friendly" it will be, would you accept such a build? Or reject it on sight?

I want to know how unsightly this build would be, if the people at the forum who know their builds find this unpugable I'll switch to a more standard ranger 14 monk 6 build.

I'd accept it so long as I weren't looking for a healer.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Humm getting into raids wont be much of an issue, already got my LitII ready and GS hp/Con Op and well there aren't any cleric gear to have in any of the raids anyway...

The main problem I see is the fact some clerics/FvS don't join parties when there is already one in it, something like "why would I join a *need helaer* when a mostly cleric/FvS is already there?".

The build is far from standard, it has plenty of goodies but the level progression will be somewhat painful and while I do plan to mostly duo with a pure monk I love PuGing a lot, the more I think about it the less interesting the clonkcher looks.

Tring is already a pain, bad lvl progression and possibly pug refusals would not help.

I already know that I can cap a 18/1/1 build easily (ftr 18, arty, ranger) so a 14 ranger 6 monk should be an easier sell, that plus more hps, more str and TWF feats. Then again on Khyber everyone took one look at my build and automatically new everything it could do, was very surprised and literally never refused.

[Qhualor]

i dont reject builds on sight. i reject people who are burdens one way or another. i give every build a chance, no matter how weird it looks. i would rather take a chance on a different build than take someone that i know has a good build, but always burdens the team in some way.

[Karavek]

i myself run a clonkcher and its great fun. He does fine in pugs but as with most clerics of any lvl spread most will give you grief saying things like if you wanted to fight be a fighter etc.

My main question is why a lvl of wizard? I did a 12/6/2 cleric monk fighter spread for extra feats etc. I just dont see what a lvl of wiz gives. clerics get blue, and you can qualify as a elf or helf AA without any need for wizard. I myself was convinced by the great writer of the path of enlightenment himself in a thread that the 13th lvl of cleric will give very little for a weapon orientated combat cleric be it melee or ranged.

While the extra feats, hp, and a few useful enhancement options that come from fighter can bring alot to your build. Now if you want to be really self sufficient even when mana is low you could do 7 monk for wholeness of body, which is pretty much unlimited mana free healing as long as u got abit of ki left over after a fight.

remember even with both increased rate of fire clicks you want to be ready to handle close quarters melee which monks are inherently awesome at. if your wisdom centric things like BB and stunning fist will be very handy. U can be an amazing undead killer between a good disruption bow and force/ghost touch ammo, and a set of handwraps from the mabar event for example.

just a few ramblings from a divine elven martial weapon master.

[Mikula]

I think the level of wizard is to qualify for the arcane archer. If you can I might suggest building a sorc then TR it into this so you could drop that level of wizard but it isn't that big a deal.

[Karavek]

I think the level of wizard is to qualify for the arcane archer. If you can I might suggest building a sorc then TR it into this so you could drop that level of wizard but it isn't that big a deal.

you dont have to take a lvl of wiz nor have past life sorc. I have a 12/6/2 cleric/monk/fighter Arcane Archer. there is nothing about an AA that requires you to be an arcane caster.

[DarkForte]

you dont have to take a lvl of wiz nor have past life sorc. I have a 12/6/2 cleric/monk/fighter Arcane Archer. there is nothing about an AA that requires you to be an arcane caster.

Probably needs it for the extra feat.

[Karavek]

Probably needs it for the extra feat.

I could see that, I jsut think my way nets more bonus feats that can be used for the many combat related feats he will need, and more 2ndary useful aspects like HP and certain enhancement lines.

in the end qualifying early for AA isnt to much a priority its not till you got all the way through many shot that using your bow is even a viable option. clonkchers still dont shoot their bow to early on. I think it was around lvl 9-12 that it started to feel practical enough, and even then when many shot is on cool down Stars is ok but still not always competitive with a monks furious fast melee if he has the right tools for the foe at hand. And easy to plan to get tools like crystal coves gloves, the robe from house c, and the hnadwraps for mabar help make sure any monk has some of the right tools.

[dougnugget]

IIRC, the wizard level gives you access to spell power enhancements, which means slightly stronger Blade Barriers, along with the bonus metamagic feat.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'd probably accept it just out of curiosity

[katz]

in my case, the level of wizard effectively frees up two feats for me. i wanted to have as much cleric as possible (17 levels, in this case). i did not want to have a deep splash... i wanted a healer AA. i know and accept that random pugs will be doubtful, but the people who know me will have no problem getting me into the raids i want to be in. throwing one level of wizard in there lets me take maximize as a wizard BONUS feat... AND use wizard energy of the scholar instead of the feat mental toughness to qualify for AA. let me have enough feats to fit everything i needed, everything i wanted, and one extra for whatever... as opposed to always being 1-2 feats short with any other combo i tried.

and yes... i put some love into the force line for better BBs.

[DeafeningWhisper]

Helf 13 cleric, 6 monk, 1 wizard

Stats:

Str: 10 (tome +2)
Dex: 16 (tome +3)
Con: 14 (tome +3)
Wis: 18 (6 lvl ups here +3 tome)
int: 8 (tome +2)
Cha: 8 (tome +3)


Level progression:
1. Monk, feats: Toughness, PBS, Helf dili: ranger
2. Monk, feat: Zen Archery
3. Cleric, feat: rapid shot
4-5. Cleric
6. Cleric, feat: Empowered Healing
7-8: Cleric
9: Cleric, feat: Precise Shot
10-11: Cleric
12: Cleric, feat: Max
13. Cleric
14. Monk
15. Monk, feat: ManyShot
16. Monk
17. Monk, feat: Dodge
18. Wiz, feat: Quicken, IC:ranged
19-20. Cleric
21. Feat: IPS
24. Feat: Precision

I had taken the Wiz lvl for a free feat and qualify for AA, I have a sorc but if he ever Trs it'll be into a sorc

[bigolbear]

my honest advice is that you will get rejected from many pugs. Many will also see that your class symbol says cleric and will expect you to be main healer - whithout any understanding of your build.

My 'advice' would be to change your build to include atleast 17 cleric lvls. For one thing it will be more pug freindly, for another I honestly beleive it will be a better build.

id go 17 cleric 2 monk 1(wiz or fighter).

[LafoMamone]

I have found that opinions of people frequenting these forums tend to be pretty different than of those who never come here. While I believe that people reading the forums are substantially more knowledgeable about this game than those who don't, you will not get proper feedback out of here if you intend to PUG, simply because we are in the minority relative to the total DDO population.

So, by looking over all the posts in this thread, it would seem like you are getting a seal of approval from most. However, don't be surprised if things look very different in practice. People have a lot preconceptions about certain classes/races/splits, and it is more than likely that you will be outright rejected, or even ridiculed, by many.

[Ausdoerrt]

Why cleric and not FvS? The Silver Flame bow bonuses would provide better synergy for your build.

And yeah, many pugs (especially the extra silly ones and the extra elitist ones) will hate you, but you should be able to solo most of the stuff with that build anyway.

[Raithe]

...it is more than likely that you will be outright rejected, or even ridiculed, by many.

If you create your LFMs, you can avoid any of that (it would be you that did the rejecting if someone got snarky about your build). Creating your own LFMs would not save you from having to explain what others might expect from you, particularly if you have a cleric symbol, however.

In regards to joining other groups, any group that will reject you simply based on build is one to avoid in the first place. I don't join discriminatory LFMs, regardless of whether I fit their discrimination. They are making it clear they are bad players that need someone else to actually provide the meat of their party.