max TWF vs max THF U14

[Khain]

Doing some more accurate calculations to compare single targed barbarian twf and thf fighting with LD epic destiny.
After calculations, THF fighting is best single targed DPS and great AOE.

Here is calculations and conclusions:

Calculations:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thf Barbarian 20 horc ESOS ED Legendary Dreadnaught 3 swing autocleave twitch hasted
3 swing autocleave metod: swing-swing-cleaveattack(supreme,great or momentum).

main / offhand
10/10 .. weapon
7/7 .. inspire courage
1/1 .. prayer
22/22 .. power attack
4/4 .. greater wulkor
2/2 .. shintao
4/4 .. orc enhacement
7 .. deadly weapon
3.5 .. improved power attack
7 .. combat brute
5 .. advancing blow
72.5 .. overall

.......... .. 38 unbuffed str (20bse, 6 lvlup, 8 item, 4 tome)
........... .. 8 str (mighty rage)
........... .. 6 str (power rage iv)
........... .. 2 str (frenzy)
........... .. 4 str (death frenzy)
........... .. 2 str (rage)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 1)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 2)
........... .. 2 str orc enhacement
........... .. 1 str fighter
........... .. 0 str defender
........... .. 1 str LD
........... .. 3 insightful str
........... .. 2 guild ship
........... .. 6 psionic str
........... .. 2 str potions from amrath
........... .. 2 barbarian capstone
55 .. 83 str (total)
7 .. autocleave bonus damage: supreme cleave + great cleave + momentum swing = (2w+2w+5w)/3 = 3w, 1/3 attacks are cleaves, 3x(2d6)/3=7
(calculation include 50% chance that cleave and supreme cleave reset cooldown of momentum swing)
134.5 .. total damage modifier
152 .. avg regular damage (ESOS = 17.5)
1344 .. avg crit damage x8 (19-20 +16 seeker)
504 .. avg crit damage x3 (15-18 +16 seeker)
98.8 .. weighted reg damage (*13/20)
134.4 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)
100.8 .. weighted crit damage (*4/20)
21.0 .. Average vicious + greater damage (6d6)
355 .. subtotal

7 .. berserker bonus
6.5 .. tunnel vision - twist from fotw
5.4 .. sense weakness 25%*1d8+25%1d12+25%1d20 = 1.125+1.625+2.625=5.375 - twist from fotw
18.9 .. total weapon effects

373.9 .. base + weapon effects


glancing blow dps:
glancing blow damage: 50% thf feats + 10% capstone + 10% wild weapons(twist from fotw) = 69% regular dmg to glancing blow
glancing blow proc: first and third attack have glancing blow = 2/3*100= 66%
(0.69*regular dmg+vicious)*0.66 = 84.1
damage per hit + glancing blow 458



hasted(15%) 3 swing autocleave: 118 swings ~ http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=349448

DPS vs 0% fortification

mainhand base*118/60

DPS 900.7

+25%damage boost:

mainhand 355-21*1.25+21+18.9=457.4
glancing blow 152*1.25=190*0.69+21*0.66=101.6
mainhand + glancing 449.15+61.4=559

DPS=mainhandbase*118/60 = 559*118/60

DPS 1099.4

+30% haste boost

~133 attacks per minute (not tested now, semiacurrate attacks)

DPS=mainhand base*133/60 = 458*133/60
DPS 1015.2

+25%damage boost +30%haste boost:

DPS = mainhandbase*133/60=559*133/60

DPS 1239.1


twf Double Frezied Barbarian fighter horc mornh 18/2 LD ED haste
main / offhand
7/7 .. weapon
7/7 .. inspire courage
1/1 .. prayer
11/11 .. power attack
4/4 .. greater wulkor
2/2 .. shintao
5.5 .. deadly weapon
3 .. improved power attack
5.5 .. combat brute
5 .. advancing blow
51/51 .. overall
.......... .. 38 unbuffed str (20bse, 6 lvlup, 8 item, 4 tome)
........... .. 6 str (mighty rage)
........... .. 6 str (power rage iv)
........... .. 2 str (frenzy)
........... .. 4 str (death frenzy)
........... .. 2 str (rage)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 1)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 2)
........... .. 2 str orc enhacement
........... .. 1 str fighter
........... .. 1 str LD
........... .. 3 insightful str
........... .. 2 guild ship
........... .. 6 psionic str
........... .. 2 str potions
35/ 17 .. 79 str (total)
86/68 .. total damage modifier
99.8/81.8 .. avg regular damage (mornh 2.5d10)
926.4/782.4 .. avg (19 or 20 x8+16) crit damage (mornh)
347.4/293.4 .. avg (15 - 18 x3+16) crit damage (mornh)
64.9/53.2 .. weighted reg damage (*13/20)
92.6/78.2 .. weighted (19 or 20) crit damage (*2/20)
69.5/58.7 .. weighted (15 - 18) crit damage (*4/20)
21.0/21.0 .. Average vicious + greater damage (6d6)
248.0/211.1 .. subtotal

5.7 .. magma surge
7 .. berserker bonus
6.5 .. tunnel vision
5.4 .. sense weakness
24.6 .. total weapon effects
272.6/235,7 .. base + weapon effects

Hasted DPS(+15% attack speed) 102.2 attacks per minute ~ http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275144

DPS vs 0% fortification

mainhand base*102.2/60+offhand base*102.2/60*0.8

464.3+321.2=785.5

+25%damage boost:

mainhand 248.0-21*1.25+21+24.6=329.4
offhand 211.1-21*1.25+21+24.6=283.2

DPS 561.1+385.9=947.0

+30% haste boost - 133 attacks per minute ~ http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275144

604.3+418.0

DPS 1022.3

+25%damage boost +30%haste boost

730.2+502.2

DPS 1232.4
-----------------------------------------------------------
Summary:

THF DPS:

Hasted(+15% attack speed) DPS: 900.7
Hasted + dmg boosted(+15% attack speed and +25% dmg boost) DPS: 1099.4
Hasted + haste boosted(+45% attack speed) DPS: 1015.2
Hasted + haste boosted + dmg boosted(+45% attack speed and +25% dmg boost) DPS: 1239.1

TWF DPS:

Hasted(+15% attack speed) DPS: 785.5
Hasted + dmg boosted(+15% attack speed and +25% dmg boost) DPS: 947.0
Hasted + haste boosted(+45% attack speed) DPS: 1022.3
Hasted + haste boosted + dmg boosted(+45% attack speed and +25% dmg boost) DPS: 1232.4

Conclusions:
-----------------------------------------------------------


THF is max dps, on singletarged or aoe fights, twf is viable only if u are rogue or monk.
Max thf dps can use drow maul of weapon master with pulverizer, its same as ESOS but cant bypass DR of bosses.



all calculation using EPIC LD DESTINY.

[azmodeus1]

[HalfORCastrator]

First, Haste boost doesn't affect special attacks like cleave and momentum swing. Use damage boost instead. Also, they have long animations, mom swing, for instance, has 2(iirc, been in fury/farming fate pts) attacks in its animation.

Second, given that these special attacks are 80%+ of combat(ime anyway), autoattack 133 apm is probably not relevant here.

Third, some of your str boosts are questionable. Clicky madstone(proc is though) and Titan gloves are not sustainable. There is no exc 2 str anymore, it became insightful, so -2 str there. Also, I find LD way to good to include more than 1 ability enh, and only out of tier prereq necessity, what's your build?

Fourth, 6D6 frenzy, shouldn't that be 21 avg? 6+36=42/2=21?

Just some observations/opinions. Thanks for this, very curious. Any plans to calculate for 50 and 80 percent fort?

Edit:
FB tod set?

Primal scream twist(+3 over spell rage)?

[emptysands]

doing some math to compare single targed barbarian twf and thf fighting with LD epic destiny and twf wins easily. Here is calculations:

thf Barbarian fighter 18/2 horc ESOS ED LD 3 swing autocleave haste+hasteboost+devastating criticals
main / offhand
10 .. weapon
7 .. inspire courage
1 .. prayer
22 .. power attack
4 .. greater wulkor
2 .. shintao
4 .. orc enhacement
6.5 .. deadly weapon
3 .. improved power attack
6.5 .. combat brute
5 .. advancing blow
71 .. overall

Few points:

• The average for 1d6 is 3.5: (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 ) / 6 = 3.5.
• eSOS is 2.5[2d6]+10. You have 10/weapon above. Where is the 2.5[2d6] = 17.5
• I thought Deadly Weapons was now corrected to add +1W, so +7. IPA is +0.5W = 3.5.
• Same for Combat Brute: +1[W] = 7.
• Encrusted is better for FB3. Gives +2 dmg and +2 STR/CON. So +3 dmg over +2 dmg from Shintao.

.......... .. 38 unbuffed str (20bse, 6 lvlup, 8 item, 4 tome)
........... .. 6 str (mighty rage)
........... .. 6 str (power rage iv)
........... .. 2 str (frenzy)
........... .. 4 str (death frenzy)
........... .. 2 str (rage)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 1)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 2)
........... .. 2 str orc enhacement
........... .. 1 str fighter
........... .. 0 str defender
........... .. 3 str LD
........... .. 3 exc str
........... .. 3 insightful str

These don't stack any more: +1 Exc will stack, but +2 Exc and +3 Insight STR do not stack. So only +4 not +6.

........... .. 2 guild ship
........... .. 6 psionic str
54 .. 82 str (total)
6.5 .. avarage cleave bonus damage: supreme cleave + great cleave + momentum swing = 2+2+5 = 9/3=3x(2d6)/3=6.5

Again, 3x(2d6)/3 = 7.

How you deal with the cool downs in the above?

131.5 .. total damage modifier
149.0 .. avg regular damage (ESOS)
1320 .. avg crit damage x8 (19-20 +16 seeker)
495 .. avg crit damage x3 (15-18 +16 seeker )
96.9 .. weighted reg damage (*13/20)
132.0 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)
99.0 .. weighted crit damage (*4/20)
20.0 .. Average vicious + greater damage (6d6)
347.9 .. subtotal

6.5 .. berserker bonus

Which bonus is this?

6.5 .. tunnel vision
5.3 .. sense weakness

How you figure this number for sense weakness?

18.3 .. total weapon effects
366.2 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects


glancing blow avarage damage: 0.5*regular dmg+vicious*0.66 = 55.8

damage per hit + glancing blow 422

dps: 133 attacks per minute

0% fortification

DPS 935.4

Does vicious still proc on all glancing blows?

Where did you get the swing per min rate for autocleave from? http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=349448 ?

[emptysands]

Also, what are your sources of sneak attack?

[Khain]

Doing recalculation, without hasteboost, only with haste spell. Comment #4: 133 attacks per minute hasteboosted is from 118 attack + 118*2/3 * haste boost because cleave attack cannot be hasted and its 1/3 attacks in autocleave. Hasteboost(30%) increase attackspeed only 20% for THF, so 118*2/3*1.2+118/3=133. Its semiaccurate, maybe its lower then 133 for thf but not much, maybe 5 attacks. But finnaly twf wins if has hasteboost+haste spell. Against 50% fort is same scenario as for 0%fort.

[akiraproject24]

Few points:

• The average for 1d6 is 3.5: (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 ) / 6 = 3.5.
• eSOS is 2.5[2d6]+10. You have 10/weapon above. Where is the 2.5[2d6] = 17.5
• I thought Deadly Weapons was now corrected to add +1W, so +7. IPA is +0.5W = 3.5.
• Same for Combat Brute: +1[W] = 7.
• Encrusted is better for FB3. Gives +2 dmg and +2 STR/CON. So +3 dmg over +2 dmg from Shintao.

These don't stack any more: +1 Exc will stack, but +2 Exc and +3 Insight STR do not stack. So only +4 not +6.




Again, 3x(2d6)/3 = 7.

How you deal with the cool downs in the above?


Which bonus is this?

How you figure this number for sense weakness?



Does vicious still proc on all glancing blows?

Where did you get the swing per min rate for autocleave from? http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=349448 ?

these formulas just give me a headache...but vicious still procs on all glancing blows when frenzy/death frenzy is activated

[Khain]

Update 15 will change some calculation because overhelming critical no more need weapon focus. Max thf dps is pure 20 barbarian esos. With some recalculation thf wins on single targed and aoe over twf in every situation. Good job turbine.

[Cold_Stele]

Update 15 will change some calculation because overhelming critical no more need weapon focus. Max thf dps is pure 20 barbarian esos. With some recalculation thf wins on single targed and aoe over twf in every situation. Good job turbine.

Not disagreeing with your assessment of which is strongest in U14, but I do feel your choice of TWF build could be better.

20 Barb or Kensai HElf is better than HOrc 18/2 for TWF.

[Jsbeer]

Update 15 will change some calculation because overhelming critical no more need weapon focus. Max thf dps is pure 20 barbarian esos. With some recalculation thf wins on single targed and aoe over twf in every situation. Good job turbine.

True but aren't barbarians supposed to be the huge hulking nutters wielding a weapon even larger than they are. So it would thematically make sense for barbarians to be better at THF than TWF. For TWF specialists you can see lore-wise rogues and fighters being more appropriate.