The xp of some challenges is still unreasonable.

[Munkenmo]

From the release notes:

The XP on some challenges has been adjusted to provide a more reasonable amount of XP/minute.

This adjustment is incredibly poor, as you have proven you are able to modify xp values on challenges without taking the servers down, please fix this now.
1k per minute is what we were aiming for in 2009, times have changed since then and it's a poor goal for many players, yet some challenges can't even provide 1k/min without pots / voice / ship buffs.

6star level 25 Buying time = base 4800xp awarded + modifiers.

[Kinerd]

It is simply a matter of terminology. You interpreted "reasonable" as "reasonable", but this was a classic blunder, albeit one only slightly less famous than getting involved in a land war in Asia. What "reasonable" in this context meant is "I know we are nerfing the bejesus out of challenge xp/min, but I'm not the one who made this dumb, dumb, dumb decision so I'm going to hide it behind words".

No one in a position to make decisions at Turbine understands the concept of xp/min. Trying to reason with them is therefore useless: there is no reason involved, words notwithstanding.

[Zindro]

Note: This is for someone who is level 25. The experience is even worse for a person who is under 20.

I read a dev post stating epic challenges should give a person who is over level 20 more exp than 1kxp per minute. Someone is who is level 19 should be getting about 1kxp per minute.

That is how it was working... why was it changed?

[Mathermune]

For 5 minutes, you got

1k xp per min. (admittedly a bit low)
However many clicky chests you got
2/3 of an epic token

Plus none of it is hit with a repeat penalty. I agree that there should be a way to level up ED's quicker than there currently is. But I think that the way to do it is take off the repeat penalty for epic level quests.

Challenge xp is still on the low side. But that is slightly negated by the fact you never get penalized for repeating it.

[tyga250]

For 5 minutes, you got

1k xp per min. (admittedly a bit low)
However many clicky chests you got
2/3 of an epic token

Plus none of it is hit with a repeat penalty. I agree that there should be a way to level up ED's quicker than there currently is. But I think that the way to do it is take off the repeat penalty for epic level quests.

Challenge xp is still on the low side. But that is slightly negated by the fact you never get penalized for repeating it.

Repeat penalties stop when u hit 3mil xp (lvl 25) and a lot of quests are much much better than 1k xp per min. That's right, I went there; challenges weren't even the best xp per min.

The first 50% nerf was bad since it affected all challenges, not just the ONE giving uber xp per min. Why on earth are you nerfing challenges that gave horrible xp per min anyway? Adjust what was broken and not just a blanket nerf across the board! I've also read from a few devs that first time bonus was too much. FINE, adjust the first time bonus. Why mess with additional star xp? It's gone from 100% of base to 10% of base... ***.

I find it inexplicable that they have made the most expensive pack a 1500tp token farm. Honestly I feel bad for anyone who actually purchased this pack before this update and I will be recommending to everyone who doesnt own it to NOT waste their money!

[danotmano1998]

Why on earth are you nerfing challenges that gave horrible xp per min anyway? Adjust what was broken and not just a blanket nerf across the board!

You'd think that this approach would be the logical choice, wouldn't you?

[Full_Bleed]

Both Buying Time and Time is Money are now terrible XP.

I guess that's one way to get people to stop running them.

[ytuy]

Both Buying Time and Time is Money are now terrible XP.

I guess that's one way to get people to stop running them.

I have earned about 250 epic dungeon tokens over the past two weeks with not too shabby exp... Do you know what that means for Turbine??

12 True heart of woods that will not be bought in the future... They don't want you farming decent XP and then taking away the need to spend TP in the future... it isn't logical. Anything that affects revenue gets fixed fast... why don't people understand this?

True hearts of wood take about 2-4 hours to farm... now with bad exp, you have to go out of your way to farm them. Some people would rather just buy a heart of wood for 10 bucks instead of farming for 4 hours. True they made the pack useless, but in the long run Turbine will make more money this way.

They don't want people leveling off epic challenges. It costs them money...

[dng242]

For 5 minutes, you got

1k xp per min. (admittedly a bit low)
However many clicky chests you got
2/3 of an epic token

Plus none of it is hit with a repeat penalty. I agree that there should be a way to level up ED's quicker than there currently is. But I think that the way to do it is take off the repeat penalty for epic level quests.

Challenge xp is still on the low side. But that is slightly negated by the fact you never get penalized for repeating it.

Like he said (all of it).

I'll be honest, I'm not worried about buying time. I would really love the other C challenges (and a few other quests) to give more appropriate xp/ingredients(loot) for the time. I find it odd they spend so much time developing new stuff when a few corrects to the old would be a huge help.

So Turbine, a little recycle/reuse

[Kinerd]

I have earned about 250 epic dungeon tokens over the past two weeks with not too shabby exp... Do you know what that means for Turbine??

12 True heart of woods that will not be bought in the future... They don't want you farming decent XP and then taking away the need to spend TP in the future... it isn't logical. Anything that affects revenue gets fixed fast... why don't people understand this?

True hearts of wood take about 2-4 hours to farm... now with bad exp, you have to go out of your way to farm them. Some people would rather just buy a heart of wood for 10 bucks instead of farming for 4 hours. True they made the pack useless, but in the long run Turbine will make more money this way.

They don't want people leveling off epic challenges. It costs them money...

One problem with this analysis is Turbine has dramatically marginalized past lives with epic destinies. Would you rather spend 4m xp getting +1 to attack or getting rank 5 in two distinct destinies? Destinies, duh. Throw in endless stones of experience to skip a significant chunk of heroic xp. Past lives just don't matter that much; really they never did.

Another problem is that all other epics drop plenty of token fragments to keep getting true hearts if you really feel like it.

You're really giving Turbine too much benefit of the doubt here. It would be more comforting if they were savvy businesspeople, aggressively changing things to maximize their profits, swaggering around in Gordon Gecko suspenders or Mad Man guy hats... but that is just an illusion. The unpleasant truth is that they just don't care. Changes happen at the whims of casual observation on the part of the highest ups. No reason. Barely any thought. A wise man once said we are being digested in the belly of a cold and indifferent universe, and that is pretty much what's going on here. My advice to you is to enjoy the game for what it is: a dysfunctional excuse to play with people you like.

[Carkolda]

I have earned about 250 epic dungeon tokens over the past two weeks with not too shabby exp... Do you know what that means for Turbine??

12 True heart of woods that will not be bought in the future... They don't want you farming decent XP and then taking away the need to spend TP in the future... it isn't logical. Anything that affects revenue gets fixed fast... why don't people understand this?

True hearts of wood take about 2-4 hours to farm... now with bad exp, you have to go out of your way to farm them. Some people would rather just buy a heart of wood for 10 bucks instead of farming for 4 hours. True they made the pack useless, but in the long run Turbine will make more money this way.

They don't want people leveling off epic challenges. It costs them money...

First, I have never (and will never) buy true hearts. I have never (and likely will never) hear of people buying true hearts. In addition, I feel like I had my 1200 turbine points (yes, I bought it on sale) stolen from me, since the pack I purchased (with the reasonable xp/min and ingredients) is no longer the pack I own. And based on this nerf, I will not be buying any more packs or points for the forseeable future, since they likely will go and ruin the pack after people purchase it.

Alternatively, I think this is going to do them more harm than good. Like another poster said, past lives are significantly diminished in value with ED's. Based on my experiences with my most recent double-TR (and a single TR that is still level 4), I will never TR again. That realization was made after a few things:
1) The lion's share of my 2nd and 3rd life xp came from Time is Money. This nerf completely nukes that option from high orbit.
2) The XP required to go through 2nd, and then subsequently 3rd lives is unbearably high IMHO. 4.3 million xp just to get to 20? I'd rather single-life it and take that time running for ED's. What I get in return is a much better ROI.
3) I will never purchase a heart of the wood out of spite for Turbine, even if they eliminated the tokens for heart mechanic. I would sooner stay at my 32-point-build for the rest of my time with them.

Until Turbine shows some maturity and discipline in how they approach specific problems (first-time xp is too high, so let's nerf ALL xp in challenges is not appropriate), they will not see me spending any more money on their products. I have spent $230 over the course of 2-1/2 years. Don't count on seeing any more until a paradigm shift occurs... one that actually benefits the players instead of hurts them.

[Vormaerin]

1) The lion's share of my 2nd and 3rd life xp came from Time is Money.

While I think the current xp return is a little low, even by my non zerger standards, it seems to me that if this statement is actually true, that is justification for fixing the xp rate on that quest. If its that much better than the alternatives, its out of whack.

[Munkenmo]

What some of the nay sayers here seem to be missing are facts like this was:

A perfect run
At the highest possible level
5% voice
5% ship buff

and I only just broke 1k / min.

It's incredibly easy to miss one objective in this quest or have to buy time. This pack was once advertised as being solo / casual friendly.

As it stands now, It takes a perfect run at the highest possible difficulty level to not even break 1k / min without extra exp boosts.

How can anyone defend this as reasonable?

A casual player or someone below cap would be lucky to get 500xp a minute, this current incarnation of challenge exp is anything but reasonable.

[Khatzhas]

While 1K XP/minute tends to be looked down on by the hardcore crowd, 500 per minute isn't that bad going for a new player.
Particularly considering that the challenges seem to be there as item acquisition options with the XP gain secondary.
Actual levelling is probably intended to be primarily through quests rather than farming challenges.

I can understand that it is upsetting if you bought the pack for the experience farming, only to have that changed later though.

[Thrudh]

As it stands now, It takes a perfect run at the highest possible difficulty level to not even break 1k / min without extra exp boosts.

How can anyone defend this as reasonable?

I agree that is not reasonable. And this was one of the challenges that used to give good exp. I shudder to think how much experience/minute some of the longer poor exp challenges (like Picture Potraits or Dragon's Hoard) must give. They were not good before... I wonder how bad they are now with an across the board double nerf (a challenge-by-challenge single nerf should have been done instead).

[Thrudh]

1) The lion's share of my 2nd and 3rd life xp came from Time is Money.

You're just making a case for the nerf. If the experience from that one (repeatable) challenge truly was that much better than the vast majority of quests, then yes, it needed nerfing.

Now I think they went too far, and the blanket nerf they did across ALL challenges was a very weak "solution".

[Puppetian]

The nerf was taken too far, I just ran a solo lvl18 thru CR20 Time is Money and got a grand total of 17,5k for a 6 star run with a 20% pot and voice going. I can understand that challenges might have been too good, but nerfing them right to the ground isn't going to generate move revenue. Frankly, as a premium player that payed whopping 1500tp for the cannith challenge pack I feel cheated.

Edit: Yes, it was a first time solve too.

[EvilI]

I have earned about 250 epic dungeon tokens over the past two weeks with not too shabby exp... Do you know what that means for Turbine??

12 True heart of woods that will not be bought in the future... They don't want you farming decent XP and then taking away the need to spend TP in the future... it isn't logical. Anything that affects revenue gets fixed fast... why don't people understand this?

Every true heart in your pocket means more money in Turbine's. Youre not going do do those 12 TR:s without xp-pots, are you?

[MRMechMan]

6 staring some of these challenges is *not* easy.

The total xp/min is not even the shocking thing here. It is the xp/star that is.

Getting 300xp/star is an utterly worthless amount and is an incredibly boneheaded move by the developer that changed this. Really.

Fire them if they can design something that bad, they do not deserve to work at your company.

While this may sound harsh, any person with that little gray matter upstairs should be cleaning toilets or something equally menial, not designing a game that thousands of people play and love.

[MartinusWyllt]

Both Buying Time and Time is Money are now terrible XP.

I guess that's one way to get people to stop running them.

As well as making grinding items a, well, a grind. 500 xp/min at least saw you with something that looked like progress while getting 5000 or 6000 mephit wings or magma shards.