bard help...

[zex95966]

I've played around with lots of characters to about 6 or so and my favorite so far was my halfling warchanter who twf and tried to tackle traps.
However the problem I had with her (as all my characters are female...) was that the bard spells came to late for my taste - so I decided I will stay pure... or if I splash it will be much later in life after I get all the important spells as soon as possible.

The other problem was the tiny SP pool, I wanted to be able to heal a little bit, but the SP pool was to ridiculous for that - I ended up using wands most of the time, but that gets expensive - at least for me.
Most importantly what I want most out of my bard is CC. The thing that I loved the most was fascinating everything.

I do my homework before building a character - even my twf warchanter was carefully planned out, but of course real experience teaches things too.

Now I haven't decided on a Pre but i'm leaning towards a virtuoso - as I said my number one goal is CC and even better, from what I understand the Virts CC will not be broken by things like glancing blows. As well, I tend to solo or at most play with my father... who is really more of a handicap most times (doesn't take a lot of prestiges, doesn't like to listen to advice... I could go on for a while.)

The SP pool still makes me cringe, so I'm also considering spellsinger so I can heal myself and others.
The other thing is I need to melee - I mean bards don't have any damage spells, so I need to do something for damage when I solo.
There is a strong possibility I will lesser reincarnate at 12 ish or so to fix up the build - for example to get rid of negotiator on the Virt pre.

all that said I want to be able to contribute in high lvl raids.
Now perhaps something has been patched or I'm missing something but I have heard that dynastic falcata's will allow me to use my charisma score instead of strength score for damage and to-hit.

if true, I think my goal might be easier than I thought. Unless that is some sort of super rare drop.
The information on the wiki about the weapon says nothing about that as far as I can tell though.

Here is where I read it:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=276864

[DavionFuxa]

While Bards are the ultimate generalists in DDO, it probably isn't a good idea to try and do everything with them. I've a level 20 Spellsinger Drow on Thelanis, and now a new Warchanter Warforged on Wayfinder to back up that experience. After a while, your find that your gradually get weaker and weaker as you try to do more and that doesn't necessarily bode well for your character when you get down to level 20. That said though, your not necessarily going to be able to make your character strong in just one field when playing the Bard class so you should be able to actively help in other fields if you can.

As a general tip, you should pick one Primary Focus for your Bard, and then a Secondary Focus for your Bard. If you need to Melee then that's one focus - get high Strength and throw extra Strength points in every 4 levels and designate a few feats towards combat; also consider going Warchanter if you want to make it your main focus. After that, you should decide if you want to be a Healing Bard or a CC Bard. If your leaning toward CC then being Virtuoso is a good choice to do so and with Perform raised up and Charisma boosted with items or buffing you should do alright - even if you don't focus on Charisma which can help you in throwing those stats to Strength for when you Melee. If you turn towards healing and casting spells then the Spellsinger line will certain help you in doing so along with a few feats to buff your Healing ability; though note you'll likely still have to use Wands from time to time, and at level 20 you'll likely be carrying Heal Scrolls and/or Reconstruct Scrolls and chucking those out (but by that time you should be able to afford it).

Some may say it is doable to try doing it all but this would also assume you had access to the equipment, the 32 point build, and the game knowledge of what you'd need to do. Playing characters to level 6, I'm assuming your not that person (just yet), so I wouldn't recommend worrying about doing it all and focusing on just doing the little.

As for the weapon your referring to, you should note that Dynastic Falcata's come in two flavors. One is a non-epic drop that you can find in the Demon Sands Wilderness area from the rare monster General Tanankh's chest. It's nothing too rare to get but it certainly isn't anything special like your thinking. The other is an 'Epic' version of the same weapon and you would get that from running a quest on 'EPIC' difficulty.

I'm not really good on suggesting specifically how to go about building your Bard, you'll have to do that or look for a build from someone who's defined one. That's about all I can say for advice, hope it helps.

[zex95966]

thanks, well my highest is a 15, and I have only tested the rest of them up to level 6 - other than a warforged melee favored soul I have who is 9.

I got 32 points and may wait to TR my fighter into the bard in question.


However I think your right... I can't really do it all. I think I'll stick with a melee virtuoso for now.

[Jendrak]

On the thought of multi-classing a bard......if your going to try and add trapping with a rogue splash i would highly recommend taking at least 1 lvl very early, if not first. This would allow you to use some of those bard skill points to keep disable, search and spot high (max ranks at a 2-1 ratio) while not putting the bard spells and abilities off for any noticable amount of time. Now, im not sure this is even still something your looking into but if you are this is definatly the best way to go about it.

Now for the healing part. The trick to being a good healing bard is almost the exact same as a good healer class (cleric or FvS) except one thing. On a traditional healer your spells (with metamagics) are the heavy hitters, because you have a good sized blue bar, and your scrolls are there only to augment your healing. On a bard its all about spamming the scrolls as much as possible (w/ max enhancments for +60-75%) and useing spells when scrolls are on timer. This constant flow of healing on a properly geared and speced bard is what makes it work. This should eb pretty easy to fit into a virtuoso build as you will probably have one of the larger spell point pools available second only to a spellsinger.

[zex95966]

On the thought of multi-classing a bard......if your going to try and add trapping with a rogue splash i would highly recommend taking at least 1 lvl very early, if not first. This would allow you to use some of those bard skill points to keep disable, search and spot high (max ranks at a 2-1 ratio) while not putting the bard spells and abilities off for any noticable amount of time. Now, im not sure this is even still something your looking into but if you are this is definatly the best way to go about it.

Now for the healing part. The trick to being a good healing bard is almost the exact same as a good healer class (cleric or FvS) except one thing. On a traditional healer your spells (with metamagics) are the heavy hitters, because you have a good sized blue bar, and your scrolls are there only to augment your healing. On a bard its all about spamming the scrolls as much as possible (w/ max enhancments for +60-75%) and useing spells when scrolls are on timer. This constant flow of healing on a properly geared and speced bard is what makes it work. This should eb pretty easy to fit into a virtuoso build as you will probably have one of the larger spell point pools available second only to a spellsinger.

yeah I gave up trying to add traps - not because it's not doable, but because I don't want to delay my bard at all. Imo they already have a slow progression for spells.

Perhaps I'm just traumatized by the Velah dragon raid I did on my fighter - our party got wiped in like 2 hits and I think like a mass cure light wounds would have saved our butts. I dunno what the max level character you can bring in before you start taking penalties is, but when my guild did it they told me not to level to 13 - so I'm thinking 14 is definitely to high if I were to splash my bard.

I might still splash for evasion later (16-20) depending on how important the last 4 levels of bard are. I'll either go pure, or splash 2 rogue or 2 fighter, or splash 2 fighter AND 2 rogue.

good to know about the massive scroll usage on the bard... I suppose that means I need to have a substantial amount of plat to buy all these scrolls?
I already cringe at the thought of buying pots for my fighter...
Perhaps bard isn't for me after all.

I don't mind using hirelings though! they are much cheaper.

[FrozenNova]

Melee spellsinger is absolutely doable.
You won't have any dc's, of course, but your songs are a boon to casters and you can spell-heal considerably better than typical warchanters.

So, what is it you're asking for? A twf spellsinger build? Let's see.
The last four levels don't give you all that much: 100 more spellpoints + a handful from cha, extra caster levels, more spell slots (those you have at 16 are entirely sufficient), mass suggestion, +1 inspired courage.

In order to justify a rogue splash, you need to be able to get a good reflex save. Bards of most races arn't all that good at that, but Half elf/paladin or Halfling can achieve it. Unfortunately, this excludes the extra skillpoint from human that helps with traps.

You will definitely need 2 fighter in there - you need the feats.

Six mandatory melee feats:
Toughness, power attack, improved critical, twf, itwf, gtwf

Three spares:
Maximize (for spellsinger), empower healing, extend are all pretty important.

However, this leaves you without khopesh. Humans can take khopesh with their spare, Dwarf can get away with daxes due to added to-hit bonus, other races will either have to drop empowered healing or live with scimitars, both reasonable choices given that a bard's sheer damage bonus doesn't get incredibly high so khopesh has less of a flat advantage.

Looking at stats for some of these, assuming +2 dex and int tomes:
Halfling 16/2/2:
str 15 + levels
dex 15
con 14
int 12
wis 8
cha 12
Giving you 7 skillpoints per level and 8 per level starting at level 8.
It's a squeeze, but traps can be done. Perform + umd + 2seach + 2disable + concentration + open locks, skipping open locks between 2 and 7, and taking a further penalty to OL during the fighter levels using the points from the second rogue level to ammend other skills.

Helf/paladin 16/2/2
str 16
dex 15
con 14
int 12
wis 8
cha 12
Same story on the skills.
These same stats would also apply to humans, who'd have a much easier time with skills, and don't have to drop empowered heal for khopesh, but really have to fight for a functional evasion.

Dwarf 18/2
str 16
dex 15
con 16
int 10
wis 8
cha 12
By completely ignoring evasion and traps, you get a hardy fighter with the best to-hit and highest health, both issues that plague typical bards. 6/7 skills for perform, umd, concentration, and whatever suits your fancy.

In the end, the issue is simply whether you feel you can get a sufficient reflex save on a human.
I'll give it a try:
10 from 16th level bard
03 from 2nd level rogue
03 from 3 base dex mod
03 from +6 dex gear
05 from +5 resistance
02 from crafted good luck
04 from greater heroism
01 from haste
01 from ship dex shrine
= 32 fully buffed. Which isn't terrible, but not great. +1 exceptional dex would bump it up one.
Halfling would get 4 from luck and luck enhancements.
Helf would get 5 from paladin with an eventual +2 tome.

[UnderwearModel]

Drops in the desert from the General's chest. The general is a rare that is part of the explorer area. That same chest will also drop a Ring of Spell Storing.

The sword can be a pain to drop because you want one. But while looking for it you just might find the Ring of Spell Storing which is HIGHLY VALUED AND DESIRED.

Dynastic Falcata's are not highly desired. On Ghallanda or Cannith I offer them at 50% of base value. Sometimes there are no takers so I just place them on the AH at 3,000 bid 5,000 buyout. When they don't sell, they go to the weapon Broker in House D.

I like the falcata as it is lawful and adamantine. I think all paladins should be required to carry it, for no other reason than just because.

If you really want one, and you do not own Desert Sands then

1. Be Patient unless you have to have it immediately

2. Always check the weapon broker in House D at night, turbine clears out vendors and with the game more active at night less chance the vendors are empty.

3. Check the AH, but do not over pay for the falcata. I would never pay more than base value for the item.

[FrozenNova]

Only Epic Dynastic Falcatas and Epic Elyd Edges will use charisma for attack and damage.
You'll have to reincarnate at cap to use these properly.

[Mellifera]

My current main is a twf/healing virt and she's by far my favorite character ever. I switched out from a SS after I found myself mostly soloing and never looked back.

You've gotten some very good advice, and I'd recommend, if you haven't already, checking out Irinis' Diva's Bard Guide.

As far as weapons, Elyd Edge is very nice (especially if you don't want to go khopesh) and reasonably easy to get. The only problem is the base weapon is only +1.

[belaf52]

I mean bards don't have any damage spells,

In fact, Bards have shout and greater shout as damaging spells. You can boost them with cacophony/resonance/efficacy/potency item and with lore items. Those spells were very useful while leveling my warchanter 16 bard / 2 fighter / 2 rogue and my pure spellsigner. Average damage and good cc!

[TonnoTopia]

As far as weapons, Elyd Edge is very nice (especially if you don't want to go khopesh) and reasonably easy to get. The only problem is the base weapon is only +1.

IIRC, though its only +1 the non epic version still gives +CHA to hit and +STR to damage so it should carry you to the low teens at least it allso has anthem and since you're doing virtuoso you might want those refreshing bard songs.

[Valindria]

You could see if the virtuoso in my signature (valindria) would be something you would enjoy. Leveling was pretty easy and once you get to level 12 it goes pretty fast.

[Jendrak]

.......I might still splash for evasion later (16-20) depending on how important the last 4 levels of bard are. I'll either go pure, or splash 2 rogue or 2 fighter, or splash 2 fighter AND 2 rogue.

good to know about the massive scroll usage on the bard... I suppose that means I need to have a substantial amount of plat to buy all these scrolls?
I already cringe at the thought of buying pots for my fighter...
Perhaps bard isn't for me after all.

I don't mind using hirelings though! they are much cheaper.

Honestly my warchanter/AA 16bard/4ftr works great. She has all her songs except mass suggestion and inspire courage is only 1 off of max and her fascinate was (havent tried it lately) enough for epics so splashing 4 lvls on a bard is completly doable and it doesnt gimp your charatcer by any means. Your also going to lose 2 lvl 6 spell slots and the capstone if you multiclass it. The spell slots arent huge imo but if you looking for high enchantment DC then the capston (+2 cha and +2 enchantment DC's) is critical. It all depends on what you tryign to do with your build. If your still thinking about splashing for evasion with rogue I would suggest at least looking into trapping as it isnt a huge strech but might not be what your shooting for.

Now, for the scrolls all I have to say is this......High Cha + haggle skill + haggle 15 item= CHEAP SCROLLS. These get even cheaper if you have access to a guild scroll vendor. Combine that with the fact that youll be selling all you vendor trash for a greater profit and the scoll healing becomes very cheap. If you have trouble making money on any bard build your definatly doing it wrong

[LordMond63]

I have a Halfling Spellsinger at level 20 and she is still an absolute blast to play.

I think the best feature of a Bard is their versatility. OK...it's rare that one is going to lead the kill list in a quest but pretty much whatever character does will lead the list due to a significant boost from the Bard. In my Bard's case, I can take care of the buffs (except for Rage and Elemental resistences unless I scroll them), which means the Arcanes have more sp for nuking and the Divines have more sp for healing (OK...or nuking). I can CC, restore spell points (Turbine...will you PLEASE fix the bug that prevents the sp song from working on Warforged?) and act as a backup healer (and, occasionally, the main healer).

Yes, it can get rather expensive playing a Bard at higher levels because you cannot mem Heal, among other spells that are denied Bards. However, as is the case with many spells you'll want to cast, you almost certainly will have a high Charisma which results in a high UMD which allows you to scroll them with little or no chance of failure. That same high CHA score will mean that you'll have a high Haggle skill as well, which means that the loot you find sells for a MUCH higher price, especially to brokers. Inj my experience, barring some really good luck, you'll probably be poor(ish) until around level 10 or so when you hit the Orchard of the Macabre, where you start finding items with a base value of 7000pp (not to mention Tapestry Shreds which, due to them being sought as turn ins to acquire a really nice helm called Minos Legens, sell for around 10-12k each and drop from rares in Orchard). It won't take many runs before your bank account starts to look a good bit healthier.

In short, you really can't get a feel for a class playing it only to level 6...or 8...or even 10 or 12. The good news is that, with all the ways Turbine has boosted xp earned, it doesn't take all that much time to hit 10-12, especially if you can concentrate only on one or perhaps two characters (a case of Do As I Say, Not As I Do there). A good guild can help a ton there as well.