Lets Talk Reflex Saves

[ImFour20]

Lightning Reflex feat worth taking? Or what reflex would you need to have in order to make it worth taking up a feat slot?

How much better is improved evasion than an uber high reflex save(with just evasion)? Assuming the build has 700+ buffed hp

GS exceptional reflex save gear worth using? if so what slot is best? im assuming goggles maybe?

what other buffs/gear(not the +10 reflex save armor since im horc monk/fighter) should i be looking out for when needing to increase reflex save? i know there 2(maybe) short term divine buffs that can increase it a lot. how much do they increase reflex saves?

it kinda boggles me to see full buffed reflex saves listed when my unbuffed save is so low(mid 20s unbuffed)

[t0r012]

Improved evasion is great for when you fail a reflex save. Then you only take half damage.
As for a GS item that is going to depend on the content and your reflex save number. If the exc GS bonus means you make mote saves awesome craft it up. If you are going to fail on anything but a 20 anyway , nope not worth it.

[Bodic]

ok so some classes get 12 reflex base some get 6.
2 lvls of pally nets you CHA mod to all save.
having an actual decent dex score.

+5 res item
+5 helf pally dilly (20 Cha)
+1 superior stability but monk/pal voids that.
+4 GH
+1 alchemical
+3 being halfling
+2 good luck

IE with a junk reflex and High HP(700 is not high) is better than evasion with a great reflex and low HP( 300 is low).

My buffed out pure 20 Halfling Rogue Trap save is 54 just to give you an un obtainable bench mark and I could squeeze out more if I dropped AP's, +4 tome, and alchemical. call it 70.

[Kinerd]

For a build with only 7 feat slots, Lightning Reflexes is never worth taking. For a build with more feat slots than it knows what to do with (for instance, a monk/fighter), Lightning Reflexes can be a worthwhile choice. We can treat the problem mathematically:

An increase of 2 Reflex save is at best an increase of 10% save. If we compare to taking another Toughness (please note this assumes you already have at least one), then we are comparing 22 HP to 0.1 * (incoming damage - 0) for Evasion and 0.1 * (incoming damage / 2 - 0) for Improved Evasion. In the first case, you would have to be subjected to >220 damage Reflex attacks for the Lightning Reflexes to be more useful than another Toughness on average only insofar as Reflex saves were concerned, as LR has no impact on Fort saves, melee attacks, etc. In the second, >440.

Now, you may decide that you are interested more in spike damage mitigation than average damage mitigation, in which case Lightning Reflexes makes more sense, but then again perhaps Great Fortitude would be more appropriate for your particular case. In any event, ddowiki.com offers a good source of raid boss attack DCs to further inform your decision.

[FrozenNova]

The functional answer to this question is going to require your potential build information.
Then we can see whether it's feasible to work extensively on reflex.

[ivstuntman]

it is prereq for tempest 2 (you can also take 1 ac). I am aware that epic traps probably land around the 30's

so assuming 3 from base dex, 5 from +7 item and +3 exceptional airship, +12 from class levels, and 2 from lightning reflexes, you have 22. So unless you are running a weapon finesse (for high dex) and high int (for insightful reflexes) it can be really useless.

[Kinerd]

It's very easy to get saves higher. 4 from Greater Heroism, 5 from a Resistance item, and 1 from Haste and that pedestrian 22 Reflex has become a very useful 32. We're also talking about a fighter/monk, so we might have another +3 from Kensei or bonuses from stances. Grab a Buccaneer Ring before CC goes away and alchemical ritual it, and you've thrown +3 saves on your Dex item.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

it is prereq for tempest 2 (

Lightning Reflexes is not a prereq for Tempest 2. Not tryin to be smartalecky just sayin...

Also I tend to not build with LR, unless as was said the build has lots of feats and LR would actually make a difference.

[QuantumFX]

If we're talking a kensai here: Remember that kensai get a situational bonus to reflex saves vs. spells. This bonus won’t show up on the reflex save on your character sheet.