To clonk or not to clonk ....

[aennae]

Trying to see if priest 11/ monk2 is better than priest 13.

What i loose :

spell slot and depending on level a spell level
spell penetration
adamantine damage reduction from shield and plate (not sure they stack)
potentially beatitude 6 effect (most are on shields).
about 15-20 AC.
access to many weapons (to be centered).
ability to block
spell points

What i get :
4 (dext) + 7 (wisdom) AC + 4 (or 6) from bracer + 2 monk stance ~ 16 AC
evasion.
No more penalties on sneak/jump and other abilties.

So Ac wise it's seems that i don't loose much and that at higher levels i will get better ac.

I probably loose to in BAB (since monk 2 one is certainly low), and on saves (same reason).

So i m wondering, may be it's still too early to clonk and i should wait to have higher wisdom and dext.

[ainmosni]

the plonk is not a very popular build.

clonk, on the other hand, is awesome. go for it!

[Phidius]

At that level, you're starting to realize that AC is a pointless effort, and that you get hit whether you're wearing pajamas or full plate.

By splashing monk, you gain 2 martial feats (Toughness and Toughness are good ones), and can boost your Wisdom by 2 over a pure cleric. Of course, you trade in 2 Spell Pen for this.

Even with a starting Dex of 8, you can get your Reflex save high enough to get good use out of Evasion. Evasion isn't necessary, but it sure makes things a lot easier.

Monk2 gives +3/+3/+3 to your saves, so your base saves will be higher, not lower.

[Satinavian]

[QUOTE=aennae;4052973]Trying to see if priest 11/ monk2 is better than priest 13.

What i loose :

spell slot and depending on level a spell level

always a spell level until lv 19

spell penetration

2 points of it

adamantine damage reduction from shield and plate (not sure they stack)
potentially beatitude 6 effect (most are on shields).
about 15-20 AC.
access to many weapons (to be centered).

Yes, but unimportant, if you have nice robes and kamas with all the wanted effects. Collect gear before multiclassing

ability to block

only shield block. you still can block without

spell points

Yes

What i get :

4 (dext) + 7 (wisdom) AC + 4 (or 6) from bracer + 2 monk stance ~ 16 AC

do you really want to build for AC ? It's hard to achieve high numbers on higher levels. Also your Wis will get higher so overall clonk will result in higher AC at high levels tan pure .

evasion.

The most important perk

No more penalties on sneak/jump and other abilties.

And more skillpoints for them

I probably loose to in BAB (since monk 2 one is certainly low), and on saves (same reason).

BAB will always be only 1 or 0 points less depending on your cleric level.

But all saves will be even higher than pure. 2-3 points higher.

Oh, and you get 2 monk feats. Common choices include 2* toughness and toughness+twf. With fred you might even net a magic feat more if you exchange one of your exixting feats for it and take it kack as monk feat.

So i m wondering, may be it's still too early to clonk and i should wait to have higher wisdom and dext.

The question is, how urgent you want to have evasion and if you are usually running low on SP or could spare some points.

[Kinerd]

It depends what you want to do.

If you want to be an offensive caster, clonks are not as good.
If you want to do melee DPS, clonks are better than pure but still pretty negligible.
If you want to do melee effects, like Stunning Fist, Healing Curse, etc., clonks beat the pants off of pure, but you have to invest in it. You need TWF feats, to-hit... if you have ignored that up until level 13, it is too late to start.

If you're just bored with the character, trying to change it midstream will probably not help.

[Antheal]

How will you get higher Wisdom?

I thought you couldn't take both Monk and Cleric Wisdom enhancements at the same time, as one locks out the other...?

[Master_of_None]

How will you get higher Wisdom?

I thought you couldn't take both Monk and Cleric Wisdom enhancements at the same time, as one locks out the other...?

Water stance for +2 to wis.

[Antheal]

Water stance for +2 to wis.

*headslap* D'oh, of course! LOL

[Innara]

So am I to understand this is an in progress toon that hasn't yet taken any monk levels? And what kind of a build are you...caster? melee? healbot?

[aennae]

So am I to understand this is an in progress toon that hasn't yet taken any monk levels? And what kind of a build are you...caster? melee? healbot?

My build is strange, i have 1 rogue level but forgot to take find/open skills. I was traumatised by balance/jump (on a first level 2 priest) and reflex save issues so i tossed all in jump/balance/concentration. Apparently i cannot reset that.

Plan was to get evasion, but then i wanted radiant servant and postponed. After i wanted level 5 spells and finally and i wanted BB and postponed again. In the meanwhile i found out that evasion means light armor which kind of screwed my plan.

The rogue level is indeed not so bad since it put my reflex saves, balance and concentration through the roof.

Since then monk got unlocked (i went vip), so i m considering a ressurection with 2 levels change (1 rogue will go to mon) and another to monk. This way i may get evasion without loosing too much ac -- and indeed getting even better ac later --.

Current feat are : toughness, mental toughness (and all mental feats), extend -- i may drop that one --, empower healing, quicken.
Enhancements are those to get RS (i hate wasting 3 point in improved healing), 3 ranks in improved heal, bonus to long sword (elf), silver flame cult ones, 1-2 ranks in smithing, cleric wisdom, probably elf dexterity.

Haven't got point in spell penetration (I wonder there as example if mob save on 19-20 one point is actually doubling the efficiency -- they would save 1/20 time instead of 1/10) if mob save on a 2 it won't change much (they will save 18/20 intead of 19/20).

Level up point went to constution and wisdom.

If i was rolling the toon now i would probably move 2 from str to constitution.

[aennae]

Just a small addition :

I mostly solo & duo, not because i dislike to be in larger group but simply because 90% of the groups calling for more are : IP (in progress), "know your way", Bring Your Own Healing, Zerg. For a newplayer joining sch group is simply unfun even if you may get nice xp & loot running around and doing random things while people who did the instance 100 times do it for you.

[Raoull]

Notes from my experience on a clonk....

-melee, if built for it, is actually pretty good. When soloing, due to dungeon scaling, it will work great. In a party, vs. bosses, you'll DPS like a real DPS (if you are also using Divine Punishment mind you... that's key). Vs non-bosses (where DP isn't worth it) you'll be more like half a melee, but every bit counts. Plus, being in the thick means your auras/bursts work great, and at high levels you can do minor CC by blinding trash. You do rely more on your gear than a traditional melee.

-casting, if built for it (without many past lives, you need to pick a direction), can also be good. While you'll lose 2 Spell Pen, you'll gain 1 DC while in stance. And with your bonus 2 feats, you can take a Spell Pen feat that you wouldn't have otherwise, and still be 1 feat up. (Of course there are trade offs, you'll have less spell slots and SP.) So, if built right, you'll trade off slots & SP for 1 DC + 1 bonus feat (which will almost assuredly be a second toughness. Stunning fist can be good for caster clonks due to wisdom, but tohit can be a problem).

-Shields.... are totally worthwhile on a clonk. I not only carry one around, I even bothered with the Shield Mastery feat. There are times where your survival means more than your melee. So during the end fight of ToD, or when it goes crazy in VoD, or eDQ, etc. I'll go with the shield. Its also great for soloing end bosses that simply hit too hard to survive otherwise (soloing DQ, her clone in that Amrath quest, etc.) That.. and with a torc, is also great for simply blocking for a while among trash to regen SP. The key fact is that while a clonk with a shield loses his stance and AC bonus, you don't lose evasion. So while blocking you've got crazy DR and evasion. With mastery, even while not blocking, that's 20% less damage to go with evasion. OK... so the mastery is probably overkill. The shield is not... really, all toons should carry a shield. You might not need it much, but it does come up.


You have to be very careful while building a clonk though. Trying to do too much will make you bad at everything. Plus, there are odd easy mistakes, like if you start with a monk level (for more skill points) that means you're stuck taking non-casting stuff at lvl 1. For a melee clonk, that isn't so bad, but its horrible on a caster and doubly so on a human.

[aennae]

Does that means that if you take cleric 1 monk 2-3 (as example) you can take a caster feat at level 3 (i.e. monk 2) ?

This may be why people usually advice to take 1s level as cleric even if this minimize the skill points.

[Raoull]

Does that means that if you take cleric 1 monk 2-3 (as example) you can take a caster feat at level 3 (i.e. monk 2) ?

This may be why people usually advice to take 1s level as cleric even if this minimize the skill points.

Yes, if you went that route you could take a caster feat at 3.

But.... I'd recommend waiting on the second level of monk until you reach C11 for heal/blade barrier. Not a huge deal though.

Melee clerics can start as a Monk1 (although humans may have issues, depending on specific feat selection). For casters, you really want to start as a cleric for feats.