A Bard-barian question

[dragonmane]

Okay, just to give you a little history really fast:

My daughter is 11 years old, has been playing for over a year and is now a VIP. She has a cleric and a rogue splash fighter. She likes to put on armor that is more her colors and uses weapons not for how good they are, but how they look. She is very energetic when she plays and constantly yells things at the monsters she meets. She makes me laugh everytime she plays.
The other day she decides she wants to make a barbarian with a big splash of bard. She wants to call it her bardbarian.

Well, to make a long story short she asked for help(first time ever) on making this toon. I told her that I would ask the forums with any build help for this odd combo. This would be her first build that would not be a total joke. Anyone know what would make this toon workable? Now remember she only uses a greataxe and she doesnt really us spells very well either. I was thinking maybe 2 bard and 2 barbarian to start and then go all barbarian. She was thinking of 8 bard and 12 barbarian(I really dont think she will ever cap a toon though, but this is one that she is serious with).

[Jahmin]

If you absolutely must be primarily a Barbarian, then Barb12/Bard8 is the best that you can do.

Bard18/Barb2 is significantly better though.

[Therigar]

Your daughter may know more than you give her credit for.

Bard 8 gives a reasonable amount of self-buffs and with songs can compliment the barbarian 12 quite well. Obviously barbarian 12 gets her to tier 2 on the barbarian PrE. It also lets her take tier 1 on bard Warchanter PrE.

Couple that with a high STR greataxe build and she will combine (depending on stats) high damage with protective buffs (blur, displacement, haste), combat buffs (songs), save buffs (songs/good hope) and high HP.

If she goes half-orc or warforged for the THF & PA enhancements she should do more than just respectible damage along the way.

[unbongwah]

First off, bear in mind barbs can't do much other than hit things or drink pots while Raged - no spells, no songs, no wands or scrolls, IIRC, while they've got their mad on. So part of making the bardbarian work is knowing when to use your spells etc. and when to fire up Rage. It also partly depends on whether you want to be mostly-bard, mostly-barb, or roughly evenly split.

For a mostly-bard THF build with a barb splash, have a look at Genghis Khan. It's pretty easy to adapt to 28-pt builds if that's all she has, too: max STR, CHA 12, the rest into CON I think.

Here's one example of a bard 8 / barb 12 Warchanter like your daughter proposed:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(12 Barbarian \ 8 Bard) 
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 242 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    24
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    13
Bluff                 1                     1
Concentration         6                    17
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            1                     3
Jump                  8                    19
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               5                    24
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble                3                     3
Use Magic Device      5                    24

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Heroism


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Rage


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Good Hope


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

[dragonmane]

lol, well, hmm.. the more I read from you all the more I like the bard 8, barbarian 12. It would be nice having the songs with haste. Hmm.. She might really enjoy this build. What stats should she pick? I know strength and constitution, but I cant remember what a bard needs to be able to cast spells. Intelligence and charisma?

[dragonmane]

First off, bear in mind barbs can't do much other than hit things or drink pots while Raged - no spells, no songs, no wands or scrolls, IIRC, while they've got their mad on. So part of making the bardbarian work is knowing when to use your spells etc. and when to fire up Rage. It also partly depends on whether you want to be mostly-bard, mostly-barb, or roughly evenly split.

For a mostly-bard THF build with a barb splash, have a look at Genghis Khan. It's pretty easy to adapt to 28-pt builds if that's all she has, too: max STR, CHA 12, the rest into CON I think.

Here's one example of a bard 8 / barb 12 Warchanter like your daughter proposed:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(12 Barbarian \ 8 Bard) 
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 242 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    24
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    13
Bluff                 1                     1
Concentration         6                    17
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            1                     3
Jump                  8                    19
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               5                    24
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble                3                     3
Use Magic Device      5                    24

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Heroism


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Rage


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Good Hope


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

Perfect, thank you, I will show her and see what she has to say. I think she will be excited.

[der_kluge]

Here is the very build I'll be making when I TR my spellsinger in a few weeks:

Keep in mind this is a TR build, with some tomes. But you could take out what you can't do. It's not terribly different from dragonmane's build. I don't really see any reason to max Perform, though. Fascinate is nice, but with parties, you don't get to use it very often. I'd rather have Haggle and UMD.

You could modify the alignment... Neutral Good gets access to Pure good weapons, but true neutral gets access to stability items. I opted for good, because stability becomes kind of useless at end game.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Aoeryn Dreamweaver
Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
(12 Barbarian \ 8 Bard) 
Hit Points: 424
Spell Points: 276 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 10
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    25
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         15                    22
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             15                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    20
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         6                    18
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                6                    26
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  8                    25
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               6                    12
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  4                     8
Tumble                1                     1
Use Magic Device      5                    26

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Improved Haggle II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 11 (Barbarian)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution III
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Haggle III