Turbine open-ness, good or bad

[mudfud]

For years we have always wondered, what is actually considered an exploit if turbine never tells us.
For years there has been silence with the warning of if it feels like an exploit it probably is.
I would hope that this is a start of more verification instead of speculation on how certain questionable things are considered by turbine, to help us play the game in the manner they envision us doing it.

I would like to point reference to the following thread where a -turbine community team member- actually commented about an exploit. If you have done the raid referred to in the following link, you know of what I am referring to.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=331937

Since not everyone reads other forum threads, i figured I would bring this great joyous moment to the rest of the servers in general discussion.

[Xioden]

The only real official one I'm aware of is THE LIST, and that's going back a couple years.

[mudfud]

The only real official one I'm aware of is THE LIST, and that's going back a couple years.

Yup I'm aware of that one. I mean more open-ness in a general sense of ---don't do this, or don't do that---- Not ( example from The LIST) Purposely causing monsters to become stuck or unresponsive on geometry.
Which in itself is pretty vague and can be interpretted in many different ways depending on who reads it.
Just be more specific I guess is the word's I'm searching for.

[Razcar]

Which in itself is pretty vague and can be interpretted in many different ways depending on who reads it.
Just be more specific I guess is the word's I'm searching for.

To be more exact without talking about specific exploits would be difficult I think.

[mudfud]

To be more exact without talking about specific exploits would be difficult I think.

How so? They did it in that thread that was linked, they specifically took out certain posts talking about a certain thing.
Would it have been so hard for them to say a long time ago that the way referred to was not the way intended and can be considered an exploit before now? Sure, they could have. It possibly could have ended one of the current weekly threads that are always made like that.

Hopefully there talkativeness doesn't end with that 1 post.

[Bradik_Losdar]

First rule of Exploit Club - - -

You don't talk about Exploit Club!

[Milfeulle]

Any method of removing quest-only weapons, soul stones, or items from a quest instance and/or selling them on via the Marketplace or Auction House.

I lol'ed.

[Bodic]

Any method of removing quest-only weapons, soul stones, or items from a quest instance and/or selling them on via the Marketplace or Auction House.

I lol'ed.

If you ever saw the Von1 axe outside a quest you would undrstand this. think the epic version outside of the quest and in full use. OP MUCH.

[Razcar]

How so? They did it in that thread that was linked, they specifically took out certain posts talking about a certain thing.
Would it have been so hard for them to say a long time ago that the way referred to was not the way intended and can be considered an exploit before now? Sure, they could have. It possibly could have ended one of the current weekly threads that are always made like that.

Hopefully there talkativeness doesn't end with that 1 post.

What you mean how so? It is forbidden to talk about specific exploits. If you were to ask if (made-up example follows) using Intimidate on the Stormreaver while he is in an Acid Fog being attacked by a summoned Chaos Beholder was an exploit, you would potentially be mentioning a bug you are not supposed to talk about.

And I suppose this is the very reason KK wrote the list he did, so you can apply it yourself to different situations. Does my made-up example make the boss unresponsive? Exploit. Does it make the raid finish without a raid timer? Exploit. And so on.

[mudfud]

What you mean how so? It is forbidden to talk about specific exploits. If you were to ask if (made-up example follows) using Intimidate on the Stormreaver while he is in an Acid Fog being attacked by a summoned Chaos Beholder was an exploit, you would potentially be mentioning a bug you are not supposed to talk about.

Yeah thats the point. Say we talk about it. Going by your example, how do we know it's an exploit if they don't ever say anything about it. Some would say it's a cheesy method, some would say exploit. If there is never an official stance, it will always be speculation of cheesy or exploit.

[Hambo]

Any method of removing quest-only weapons, soul stones, or items from a quest instance and/or selling them on via the Marketplace or Auction House.

I lol'ed.

There was a bug a few years back that allowed this until it was fixed.

[k1ngp1n]

Hopefully there talkativeness doesn't end with that 1 post.

Amen.

They should view that thread as what it could be like if they pulled their heads out: the affirmation of the exploit definition (intended or not) lead to a clear move on the community's part.

'If you have to ask' is not an exploit definition, regardless of what they say. In fact, its counterproductive, because then people will just stop asking and try to hide things from them. Its all part of their image/brand/community management (which they are horrible at). Lets hope they pull the finger out and make some improvements.

[Lissyl]

I think if you live by the rule 'If its close enough to have to ask, its an exploit', you'll do just fine. Getting into specifics leads to nothing more than semantics arguments. For an example of this, see if you can find some of the cached Google conversations from the WoW forums after a top guild was banned for 2-manning Heroic Flame Leviathon back in Ulduar and how the arguments all ended up coming down to semantics because a Blizz rep said something that people took to be concrete law.

[mudfud]

I think if you live by the rule 'If its close enough to have to ask, its an exploit', you'll do just fine. Getting into specifics leads to nothing more than semantics arguments.

I think the opposite would happen. If players knew without a doubt from a turbine employee said way was an exploit, alot more people would stop doing things certain ways for fear of reprisals if done said way. By not saying anything it opens it all up to speculation.