Shroud incompetence reaching all time high

[Tarragon12]

In the spirit or recently closed thread, i want to discuss pug Shroud running. In the past, when 16 was cap, majority of 15+ toons ran it. Fail was rare and usually due to part4. Pots were rarely drunk.

These days, it seems every other shroud run struggles to finish part2. People start fighting mobs blindly, obviously expecting "others" to provide general strategy. This usually leads to several rounds of failures followed by wipe or sloppy success. Then comes the part3. Link to solver is posted, yet frequently three or more people ask for help or trash randomly on the tiles, until rescued by others. Idea of running water seems to be even more alien.

Part4 is suprisingly the least problem now. Usually 1round bore with nothing going wrong. Proves that while skill and cooperation declines or stagnates, average dps is on the rise.

Part 5 is a success most of the time as well, with a single sad note, that YEARS old practice or renewing mana slowly, which is pretty much obsolete, is still observed without a thought. There is no need of this, unless single lvl17 cleric decides to solo heal despite multiple other being present.
Memory of such a cleric chugging 4 pots in company of generalist FVS and leader who didn't bother to lead.

Back on Keeper, there were no such troubles. Back on Thelanis, there were no such troubles. This leads me to believe that these troubles are almost unique to our almost drama-free yet somewhat noobish(from noob=dual minVI or eSOS wielding incompetent player, not a newbie=player learning the ways of DDO) server.

[grodon9999]

You just have lousy luck. I've been taking the first 11 idiots who hit my LFM for well over a year and there is no issue completing smoothly 99.9% of the time.

Could be a timezone thing, run one at 6 PM eastern and you will not fail.

[knightgf]

With all of these 'failed shroud' threads, I have a bad feeling Turbine may decide to 'nerf' the shroud so that it is much easier for noobs and makes characters that can run it on pre-nerf normal run it on post-nerf elite. Do be careful Turbine; you might be making a mistake if you do.

[Syllph]

You just have lousy luck. I've been taking the first 11 idiots who hit my LFM for well over a year and there is no issue completing smoothly 99.9% of the time.

Could be a timezone thing, run one at 6 PM eastern and you will not fail.

Same here. Once in a long while it'll fail but I don't even bother with myddo or even what class they are. I grab them in the order they hit the LMF and rarely have trouble.

[Gkar]

I wonder what the common element in all those failed shrouds you were in was?

[Yazzman]

Dunno, usually only trouble i have in Shroud is in part2 when someone kills something too fast (doesn't even have to be on purpose, getting aggro on cat and cat killing itself on your cold shield - happened to me). Announcing the death of a part2 boss every time and not just the first time might help but it's usually down to bad coordination/communication.

[Battlehawke]

I have't been in a failed Shroud in a very long time. Years, it seems like. The biggest reason that I have seen them fail, when they have is due to lack of leadership communication. one great healer should be enough, but that depends on the party make up and THAT healer, not you. And if you ever complained about a healer trying to get his blue bar up in pt four, you would not be in any of my shroud runs. Maybe thats part of the problem......

[Chai]

Part4 is suprisingly the least problem now. Usually 1round bore with nothing going wrong. Proves that while skill and cooperation declines or stagnates, average dps is on the rise.

This is the symptom that stands out the most right here, because right now a good portion of the player base has been convinced that "contribution" and "DPS" are one and the same. They have even developed tools to measure who is better at running into the room, getting into attack animation, boosting that attack animation, and staying nailed to the floor to do the most DPS.

The issue with that is when the view becomes distorted to the point where people believe this is all that matters. Harry in part 4 of the Shroud is that exact encounter - run in and attack, boosting as much as possible. So you see huge amounts of success. This makes raids like Titan and Abbot much harder though, as well as discourages actual strategy in places like Shroud part 2 (ZOMG what do you mean STOP hitting the mobs when they are at 2% HP? does not compute!!) and TOD (if that dude cant hold aggro off me with all my threat gear on he shouldnt be tanking). When you apply a minor amount of strategy to these encounters they become easy peezy, even with less DPS being applied.

[RuneStriker]

Biggest problem I've seen lately is all the idiots who get into part 3 and despite the leader asking if anyone doesn't know what to do or needs help, they still manage to break crystals or drop water where they shouldn't and lock everyone out of the two middle chests.

Also annoying are all those who use summons after part 1 and cause issues, again despite the party leader clearly instructing no one to do so. This applies to all the clueless FvS AoV's who summon their Archons in part 2 and part 5 before Harry drops as well as all the noobs using the new Xoriat summon trinkets (note to the clueless, beholders and evil eyes will shoot at ANYTHING that is not another player, whether you want them to or not, this includes the crystals).

Personally I would love to see the ability to use summons removed from the Shroud entirely - they are just not necessary.

One or both of these issues have happened in the last 4 of 5 Shrouds I have run this week despite them being fairly clearly voiced for instruction. People just can't be bothered to listen to instruction lately.

[Miow]

Good communication goes a long way not all 11 of the other peeps won't listen. BTW healers will know by part 5 whether or not they need full mana to heal depending on dps...

[Tarragon12]

I wonder what the common element in all those failed shrouds you were in was?

Incompetence of the leaders. But your insinuation is appreciated.

[grodon9999]

Incompetence of the leaders. . .

Then lead your own.

[Tarragon12]

You just have lousy luck. I've been taking the first 11 idiots who hit my LFM for well over a year and there is no issue completing smoothly 99.9% of the time.

Could be a timezone thing, run one at 6 PM eastern and you will not fail.

I run around EU eve time. Hmmm. Maybe its us overseas people.
It seems, Devourer was not deleted for being gimped after all..

[Tarragon12]

Then lead your own.

That would lead to much drama.

[Thrudh]

This is the symptom that stands out the most right here, because right now a good portion of the player base has been convinced that "contribution" and "DPS" are one and the same. They have even developed tools to measure who is better at running into the room, getting into attack animation, boosting that attack animation, and staying nailed to the floor to do the most DPS.

The issue with that is when the view becomes distorted to the point where people believe this is all that matters. Harry in part 4 of the Shroud is that exact encounter - run in and attack, boosting as much as possible. So you see huge amounts of success. This makes raids like Titan and Abbot much harder though, as well as discourages actual strategy in places like Shroud part 2 (ZOMG what do you mean STOP hitting the mobs when they are at 2% HP? does not compute!!) and TOD (if that dude cant hold aggro off me with all my threat gear on he shouldnt be tanking). When you apply a minor amount of strategy to these encounters they become easy peezy, even with less DPS being applied.

Excellent post... sorry I seem to have already given you rep recently.

We're going to see epic levels of fail when the next raid is released, because 80% of the playerbase has been told that full ****** max DPS is the only thing that matters, and have never learned anything about group strategy.

Or maybe the devs will make the next raid boss another "circle him, and hit autoattack while you eat a sandwich" encounter. I have faith in the devs though. I bet it won't be quite that easy.

[Miow]

On the other hand is it group strategy to zerg through the raid? I saw an lfm last night saying they wouldn't even finish part 5 lol

[Thrudh]

When you apply a minor amount of strategy to these encounters they become easy peezy, even with less DPS being applied.

I was in a ToD the other night with a large Thelanis guild...

They used two meat-shields as tanks for Horoth and Suulo... I said, "I can tank Suulo if you want. He can't even hit me on normal." They said "We don't need AC in here. DPS is more important."

The guild clerics drank 2 pots each.

But hey, I got my completion (normally, I'd give them replacement pots, but if the guild wants to play stupid, I don't need to support them)

[grodon9999]

Excellent post... sorry I seem to have already given you rep recently.

We're going to see epic levels of fail when the next raid is released, because 80% of the playerbase has been told that full ****** max DPS is the only thing that matters, and have never learned anything about group strategy.

Or maybe the devs will make the next raid boss another "circle him, and hit autoattack while you eat a sandwich" encounter. I have faith in the devs though. I bet it won't be quite that easy.

i think you're probably right, I haven't seen the new stuff yet but the "In the Flesh" end-fight is definitely not tank-n-spank. On Elite I'd say it's harder than Epic Big Top. I'd like to see more of that.

[Gkar]

Incompetence of the leaders. But your insinuation is appreciated.

If there is a lack of leadership, for example in the coordinating of part 2, then one or two good players stepping up can complete. If something as basic as pt2 fails, that means that everyone in the group failed.

It's easy to blame others, especially when you report you are unwilling to lead the raid yourself.

[Arkat]

Incompetence of the leaders. But your insinuation is appreciated.

Gkar might have meant that maybe YOU should provide the leadership instead. Try putting up your own Shroud LFMs and actually show people how it's done instead of complaining on the DDO Forums.

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness." - John F. Kennedy