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  1. #1
    Community Member Cold_Stele's Avatar
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    Default Impossible to make good HElf melee build?

    Is there any melee build out there that a HElf can do better at than another race?

    I'm thinking TWF Khopesh (for swings/minute) coupled with high healing amp from Monk dilly enhancements is at least something that makes the most of being HElf.

  2. #2
    Community Member manumase's Avatar
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    i like str wis monk with rog dilly to up sneak attack dmg from 3d6 to 6d6 and still have very good stats

  3. #3
    Community Member Talltale-Storyteller's Avatar
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    Helves angel?

    Pure monk?

    Off of the top of my head no other race (imo) is as good as a helf for pure monk, and the helves angel build really is all about the stuff a helf gets.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Seamonkeysix's Avatar
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    Helves Angel rocks!

    With human versatility and access to helf dilly, I think Helf makes one of the most potent potential DPS builds out there.
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  5. #5
    Founder PurdueDave's Avatar
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    Helf would be my second choice for FVS, first for FVS:AoV. Probably first for monk but I haven't given it a lot of thought. Probably second for tactics kensai (based on no numerical advantage, mind you).

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    As far as full ******, maximizing DPS builds, Helf doesn't cut it. But if you want a build that can do more than one thing it is one of the top racial choices IMO. It's probably the top race out there for versatility and is a great choice for many builds. I love the race because it allows more creativity in character building.

  7. #7
    Community Member zebidos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold_Stele View Post
    Is there any melee build out there that a HElf can do better at than another race?

    I'm thinking TWF Khopesh (for swings/minute) coupled with high healing amp from Monk dilly enhancements is at least something that makes the most of being HElf.
    Nothing wrong with being versatile and not being a min/maxer. -2 to 4 to a end game strength score vs say a half orc is really not a big deal, DPS has alot more to do with player skill then just base stats.

    If you want to make a melee HElf make one.

  8. #8
    Community Member LuKaSu's Avatar
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    Default Monk

    I have to second the monk idea. I have a str/wis monk with a cleric dilly, and it really helps to have a monk that can wand heal between battles and throw a raise dead on a cleric that dies too far away from the shrine

  9. #9
    Community Member Cold_Stele's Avatar
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    I should clarify by saying it would be for a TR with full range of LitII, MinII khops etc, etc.

    HElves Angel is a ranged build IIRC.

    And whilst there's nothing wrong with not being a min/maxer, a HOrc hits for 13(?) pts more per swing with a two hander. You just can't ignore that unless you're bringing something else to the table...
    Last edited by Cold_Stele; 04-17-2011 at 12:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Dark-Star's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold_Stele View Post
    I should clarify by saying it would be for a TR with full range of LitII, MinII khops etc, etc.

    HElves Angel is a ranged build IIRC.

    And whilst there's nothing wrong with not being a min/maxer, a HOrc hits for 13(?) pts more per swing with a two hander. You just can't ignore that unless you're bringing something else to the table...
    The Helves Angel is a melee build with 20 seconds of incredibly high burst DPS every 100.

    It can hold its own in kills with pure melees and Blitz builds, even when those are run by some of the best players in the game.

    As to your original question.

    Half Orcs are best for:

    Most builds with haste boost
    THF builds
    Most rogue splash builds

    Half Elves are best for:

    Arcane Archers
    Monks
    Non-rogue TWF builds

    Half Elves can be an incredibly strong race if built right, most people have just not caught on yet or are turned off by the way they look.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Seamonkeysix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Star View Post
    The Helves Angel is a melee build with 20 seconds of incredibly high burst DPS every 100.

    It can hold its own in kills with pure melees and Blitz builds, even when those are run by some of the best players in the game.

    As to your original question.

    Half Orcs are best for:

    Most builds with haste boost
    THF builds
    Most rogue splash builds

    Half Elves are best for:

    Arcane Archers
    Monks
    Non-rogue TWF builds

    Half Elves can be an incredibly strong race if built right, most people have just not caught on yet or are turned off by the way they look.
    Just to give some props to Dark on the Helves Angel build, I am currently running one as a TR (at level 15 atm, so I am not even getting Kensai II yet). Unfortunately, I had an FvS past life, so I am not even getting everything this build can offer and it is probably the most fun I have had in DDO in 5 years. The thought of TRing again isn't appealing, but the build is such that I actually plan to use some +5 hearts of wood and change levels around at cap so I can get a paladin PL before I TR again.

    Given what this toon can do with a 34 point build and an FvS past life, I can't wait to see how he performs as a 36 point build with pally PL. The rogue dilly for sneaks and versatility + the burst DPS makes for one of the most survivable, fun, and potent DPS builds out there.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Bodic's Avatar
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    THF Helf pally dil 17/2/1 bard rogue fighter virtuosso

  13. #13
    Community Member Cold_Stele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Star View Post
    Half Elves can be an incredibly strong race if built right, most people have just not caught on yet or are turned off by the way they look.
    Hmm, I'm genuinely trying to come up with something but the synergies just seem bad to me -

    - Pure Ftr/Barb rogue dilly is not as good as HOrc PA, THF enh. and extra Str combined.

    - For 12Ftr/6/2 builds Monk is a bad choice for pure melee TWF as eChaosblades are an eventual goal (need unbuffed, no gear changed UMD30 to freely switch weapons in/out).

    - if you splash 2 Rog as part of your 12Ftr/6/2 you 'waste' some of your rogue dilly.

    - Monk dilly could make a strong healing amp build but requires Wis 13 - 5 wasted attribute points.

    - Cleric dilly also requires Wis 13, and is easily replaced when soloing by just taking a hireling.
    Last edited by Cold_Stele; 04-17-2011 at 03:56 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    They do look atrocious.

    DPS-only benefits are really constrained to primarily Rogue and Fighter dilettantes; the others provide utility and/or defenses. Fighter is handy for any tactics build (like some Acrobats, Barbarians, etc.) and comes with that handy +1 STR. Rogue is obviously for the SA damage.

    Still, if you want more than just DPS out of your dilettante, I think there's a lot of merit in Paladin and Monk or one of the casters.
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  15. #15
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Barb 20 fighter dilettante
    Rogue 20 fighter dilettante
    Monk 20 fighter or rogue dilettante (tactics or DPS)

    Any of the above in a mix class w/ fighter if a tactics build or rogue for DPS
    ... monk2/ranger18 - rogue
    ... monk2/fighter18 - rogue
    ... monk2/paladin18 - fighter or rogue
    ... monk3or6or7/rogue - fighter
    ... rogue2/barb18 - fighter

    The bigger benefit, as I mentioned, might be in the addition of capabilities for utility or defenses ...

    monk2/sorc18 - paladin
    rogue/bard mixes - paladin
    etc.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Cold_Stele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Barb 20 fighter dilettante
    Rogue 20 fighter dilettante
    Monk 20 fighter or rogue dilettante (tactics or DPS)

    Any of the above in a mix class w/ fighter if a tactics build or rogue for DPS
    ... monk2/ranger18 - rogue
    ... monk2/fighter18 - rogue
    ... monk2/paladin18 - fighter or rogue
    ... monk3or6or7/rogue - fighter
    ... rogue2/barb18 - fighter
    For all of these you mention though - I could surely make a better build by going HOrc for max DPS or WF for DPS, tactics & immunities?
    Last edited by Cold_Stele; 04-17-2011 at 04:38 PM.

  17. #17
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold_Stele View Post
    For all of these you mention though - I could go HOrc for max DPS or WF for DPS, tactics & immunities...
    Heh ... you asked "good" not "best". Sure a Dwarf or WF is likely to out-tactics the HElf, etc.

    I think, though, that's the point. You can do a ton with the options. You can have GOOD tactics, but it may not be the best. It is nice, though, to stack on another point of an attribute (fighter gives STR, which a monk or rog/barb doesn't get as a class enhancement, for instance).

    But yeah - I find the real power of half-elves in my experience to be not in primary DPS specialization, but in the other areas. They make very tough Undying Court FVS, for instance, pure or multiclass. They are a great way to add some healing amp, CHA to saves, etc. onto a build. I've got a few HElfs in-flight, a few more planned on TRs/alts.

    Monk 2 / Air Sorc 18 w/ Pally dilettante (save boost + wand usage for pre-UMD healing)
    Melee FVS (undying court) w/ Rogue dilettante (3d6 sneak damage)
    Bard / Rogue w/ Pally dilettante (save boost)
    Monk/Rogue Acrobat w/ Fighter dilettante (additional healing amp, STR and trip/stun boosts)

    Then I'm going to run a HElves Angel once I decide I don't have bows enough to avoid it.
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  18. #18
    Community Member xSeverinax's Avatar
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    I am running a pure rogue Assassin III Half Elf, I took the fighter dilly to begin with, but at Lvl 20 re-specced to a Barb dilly. That gave a +1 to con, an extra 3 lvls of Barb toughness for HP and some minor DR. I now have 454 HP unbuffed and without GS item for HP or Madstone boots. By the time you chuck in shrine bonus, rage bonus, a +45HP item from GS and Madstone's I will come in at well over 500HP, and I still don't have greater false life, only improved false life at the moment.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold_Stele View Post
    Hmm, I'm genuinely trying to come up with something but the synergies just seem bad to me -

    - Pure Ftr/Barb rogue dilly is not as good as HOrc PA, THF enh. and extra Str combined.

    - For 12Ftr/6/2 builds Monk is a bad choice for pure melee TWF as eChaosblades are an eventual goal (need unbuffed, no gear changed UMD30 to freely switch weapons in/out).

    - if you splash 2 Rog as part of your 12Ftr/6/2 you 'waste' some of your rogue dilly.

    - Monk dilly could make a strong healing amp build but requires Wis 13 - 5 wasted attribute points.

    - Cleric dilly also requires Wis 13, and is easily replaced when soloing by just taking a hireling.
    You keep mentioning THF and all the benifits Horcs get from it, yet only list TWF weapons...

    Yes, horc gets more str, more PA, But helfs get a wider varity, the ability to swap out stats to not only accommodate the items you have now, but also in the future*human adaptability line* then you also not only get the AP boosts from your own class but also the human Vert. line, allowing you to stack on a +4dmg to a +40% haste! not to mention if you go rogue dilly you get 3d6 sneak attack, or cleric dilly for increased survivability.

    In the end, its your choice, you want the Extra Str and PA line from Horc and go as a min maxer? or do you want to utilize the differnt functions of Helf and have the potental to deal so much more, or deal just a little less.

    *Jig saw voice*
    The choice is yours.

  20. #20
    Community Member Cold_Stele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathlos View Post
    You keep mentioning THF and all the benifits Horcs get from it, yet only list TWF weapons...

    Yes, horc gets more str, more PA, But helfs get a wider varity, the ability to swap out stats to not only accommodate the items you have now, but also in the future*human adaptability line* then you also not only get the AP boosts from your own class but also the human Vert. line, allowing you to stack on a +4dmg to a +40% haste! not to mention if you go rogue dilly you get 3d6 sneak attack, or cleric dilly for increased survivability.
    I don't mention THF as HElf can't even compete. Only getting +3d6 SA per hand on TWF allows HElf to catch up.

    The things you mention - HV, SA, etc still are inferior to HOrc.

    As for Cleric dilly - you're really going to spend 5pts on Wis 13? Monk or Pally maybe, but on a Barb or Ftr???

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