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  1. #1
    The Hatchery BrightAsh's Avatar
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    Default Fighter or Pally PrE tank?

    With the whole new intim coming up soon where it will be very necessary to get some proper DPS as well as high intim and AC as a tank... what should one pick, when choosing between fighter StD or pally DoS (not considering some very nice monk/pally builds to intim/hate).

    For the sake of usefullness to everyone, let's speculate on a medium player, not a hardcore supergrind with all gear slots maxed out on epics.

    I myself am planning to TR my fighter into a 34 point build Pally DoS with about 75 AC and 80 Intim (not überleet geared with all kinds of epic sets, but some decent gear nonetheless, GS, ToD, Hound, Vod, etc. gear).

    I chose a DoS instead of a fighter StD, for it's ability to burst damage (thus hate) on a boss to generate loads of aggro in short amounts of time. On the other hand, a fighter's base damage is probably a tad higher which will make getting to level 20 somewhat easier i think. Also a fighter get's load more feats, but has to spend a few more on getting a bigger intim (assuming Cha is dumped). O and i like the self healing aspect of pally's + better saves. To compensate for the feat problem i'll probably take 2 levels fighter (cancelling Pally capstone)

    So with the new tanking system coming up. I don't really see much advantage in playing a StD if you want to be a great tank. Am i sorely mistaking? Let me know before I TR
    Last edited by BrightAsh; 04-05-2011 at 07:32 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member elujin's Avatar
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    Default

    i don't have mutch knowlage on this but
    paladins seems better at hate genatating but lack feats for all the nice stuff coming out

    fighters more feats no class hate gen can take a racial one but so can a pally and i do think they stack.

    the pre them selfs i don't know i think its probebly minor in the grand scheme of things
    Virt II makes elujin smile !

  3. #3
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Here's the two build I (with some help) came up with...ironically their a Fighter/Paladin and a Paladin/Fighter...I'm still working on a Paladin/Monk (All 18/2 btw...maybe 18/1/1 for the monk version) my only issue Is how to calculate a "reasonable" max AC for each version (ie. no epic items, anything else fair game, Self-Buff)

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin) 
    Hit Points: 312
    Spell Points: 232 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 26
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 16
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    
    Str 16
    Dex 12
    Con 14
    Int 12
    Wis 8
    Cha 15
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                    14
    Bluff                 1                     5
    Concentration         6                    35
    Diplomacy             1                     5
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                1                     5
    Heal                  0                     2
    Hide                  2                     3
    Intimidate            5                    32
    Jump                  3                     7
    Listen                0                     1
    Move Silently         2                     3
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                1                     1
    Spot                  0                     1
    Swim                  3                     7
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      3                    16
    
    Level 1 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Intimidate (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    The Fighter version I haven't actually finished but I got a bit done...mostly it's a question whether to go Dwarf (Higher AC if you can fit the enhancements in & free D-Axe access) or Half-Elf (FvS Dilletante for awesome self-healing) personally I prefer H-Elf due to AP being WAY too tight.

    Fighter18/Pally2

    Str 16
    Dex 14
    Con16
    Int 12
    Wis 8
    Cha 12

    Regular Feats

    1 Toughness
    2 Power Attack
    3 SF: Intim
    4 Weapon Focus: Slashing
    5 Weapon Spec: Slashing
    6 Force of Personality
    7 Greater Weapon Spec:Slashing

    Fighter Feats

    1 Greater Weapon Focus:Slashing
    2 Combat Expertise
    3 Dodge
    4 THF
    5 ITHF
    6 GTHF
    7 IC:Slashing
    8 Improved Shield Bash
    9 Shield Mastery
    10 SF:UMD or B. Sword if not Dwarf


    The main issue with Paladin/Monk is that...correct me if I'm wrong...wielding a shield negates your Wis bonus to AC...also Dex/Wis would need to become your focus as opposed to Str/Cha with a side of Con...Dex and Wis only high enough to meet MDB and Lvl 4 spells.

    Overall I prefer the Paladin version mostly for its much superior ability to generate hate and the aura helps you as well as any party members...not to mention the various spells and LoH to use
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 04-05-2011 at 08:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  4. #4
    The Hatchery BrightAsh's Avatar
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    I personally planned more S&B on my 18pally/2fighter. So i chose shield mastery and improved shield bash for the extra bit of DR and Damage, dropping the weapons foc/spec feat.

  5. #5
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightAsh View Post
    I personally planned more S&B on my 18pally/2fighter. So i chose shield mastery and improved shield bash for the extra bit of DR and Damage, dropping the weapons foc/spec feat.
    Are you referring to my post...I take all of those on my Fighter version and I take the same ones you took on my Pally version
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  6. #6
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Here's the two build I (with some help) came up with...ironically their a Fighter/Paladin and a Paladin/Fighter...I'm still working on a Paladin/Monk (All 18/2 btw...maybe 18/1/1 for the monk version) my only issue Is how to calculate a "reasonable" max AC for each version (ie. no epic items, anything else fair game, Self-Buff)

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin) 
    Hit Points: 312
    Spell Points: 232 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 26
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 16
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    
    Str 16
    Dex 12
    Con 14
    Int 12
    Wis 8
    Cha 15
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                    14
    Bluff                 1                     5
    Concentration         6                    35
    Diplomacy             1                     5
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                1                     5
    Heal                  0                     2
    Hide                  2                     3
    Intimidate            5                    32
    Jump                  3                     7
    Listen                0                     1
    Move Silently         2                     3
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                1                     1
    Spot                  0                     1
    Swim                  3                     7
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      3                    16
    
    Level 1 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Intimidate (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III
    Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
    Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    The Fighter version I haven't actually finished but I got a bit done...mostly it's a question whether to go Dwarf (Higher AC if you can fit the enhancements in & free D-Axe access) or Half-Elf (FvS Dilletante for awesome self-healing) personally I prefer H-Elf due to AP being WAY too tight.

    Fighter18/Pally2

    Str 16
    Dex 14
    Con16
    Int 12
    Wis 8
    Cha 12

    Regular Feats

    1 Toughness
    2 Power Attack
    3 SF: Intim
    4 Weapon Focus: Slashing
    5 Weapon Spec: Slashing
    6 Force of Personality
    7 Greater Weapon Spec:Slashing

    Fighter Feats

    1 Greater Weapon Focus:Slashing
    2 Combat Expertise
    3 Dodge
    4 THF
    5 ITHF
    6 GTHF
    7 IC:Slashing
    8 Improved Shield Bash
    9 Shield Mastery
    10 SF:UMD or B. Sword if not Dwarf


    The main issue with Paladin/Monk is that...correct me if I'm wrong...wielding a shield negates your Wis bonus to AC...also Dex/Wis would need to become your focus as opposed to Str/Cha with a side of Con...Dex and Wis only high enough to meet MDB and Lvl 4 spells.

    Overall I prefer the Paladin version mostly for its much superior ability to generate hate and the aura helps you as well as any party members...not to mention the various spells and LoH to use
    With the 18p/2 m you shouldnt be thinking about shields. You should be thinking robes and twf. Now on that note the stats to get into the 90s raid buffed are tight. The APs will be really tight. Its going to be hard to get dialed in and I wouldnt do it under 36 points. I still dont see s&b as reliable dps. So Im not sure I would go that route.
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  7. #7
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    With the 18p/2 m you shouldnt be thinking about shields. You should be thinking robes and twf. Now on that note the stats to get into the 90s raid buffed are tight. The APs will be really tight. Its going to be hard to get dialed in and I wouldnt do it under 36 points. I still dont see s&b as reliable dps. So Im not sure I would go that route.
    The main issue with that is no shield means you can't take advantage of any of this stuff.

    - When using a shield, intimidate will get a longer lasting and more effective threat multiplier applied.

    - Improved Shield Bash now grants a 20% chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking with a melee weapon.

    - Shield Mastery's feat benefit has been changed to, "You are now skilled with the use of a shield, and your physical damage vulnerability is decreased by 10% when using a buckler or small shield, 15% when using a large shield, or 20% when using a tower shield."

    - B-Swords and D-Axes now benefit from the THF feats when weilding a sheild or nothing in your off-hand and also produce glancing blows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery BrightAsh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    The main issue with that is no shield means you can't take advantage of any of this stuff.
    *snip

    - B-Swords and D-Axes now benefit from the THF feats when weilding a sheild or nothing in your off-hand and also produce glancing blows.
    Ow reaheaheaaaaly? now there's some usefull info then i will recheck my featselection thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Are you referring to my post...I take all of those on my Fighter version and I take the same ones you took on my Pally version
    Yup i was, i didnt see them so i assumed you took another route. Thanks for confirming

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    With the 18p/2 m you shouldnt be thinking about shields. You should be thinking robes and twf. Now on that note the stats to get into the 90s raid buffed are tight. The APs will be really tight. Its going to be hard to get dialed in and I wouldnt do it under 36 points. I still dont see s&b as reliable dps. So Im not sure I would go that route.
    Perhaps, but with the new shield thingies going on, S&B gains some DPS and good extraintim/hate aggro. Plus, i just want to play a fullplated-shield-carying-axe swinging-charismatic dwarf I dont necessarily want the superbestbuild around, but a proper build character that i have fun playing with.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    ironically their a Fighter/Paladin and a Paladin/Fighter
    Sorry, but personal pet hate. That's not ironic.

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    19,465

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Fighter18/Pally2
    FWIW, here's a dwarf SD tank I'm leveling based on this split:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Female
    (18 Fighter \ 2 Paladin) 
    Hit Points: 392
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 22
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    26
    Dexterity            14                    16
    Constitution         16                    20
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             12                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
    Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II
    Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization II
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    The pally splash adds a nice boost to survivability while leveling, between higher saves & pally wands (Cure, Resist Energy, etc.); FoP lets me dump WIS and not care about it (in fact the +2 WIS tome is basically a waste). But it is sacrificing the capstone; that may well adversely affect its endgame hate-tanking enough that I'll probably either TR or LR into pure ftr.

    Note that I cooked up this build quite a while ago. With the U9 changes to the shield feats, I'm debating adding them to the mix.
    Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  11. #11
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkullJug View Post
    Sorry, but personal pet hate. That's not ironic.
    Yeah I probably butcher the use of "Ironic" alot...whats the proper term to use there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery BrightAsh's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    FWIW, here's a dwarf SD tank I'm leveling based on this split:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Female
    (18 Fighter \ 2 Paladin) 
    Hit Points: 392
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 22
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    26
    Dexterity            14                    16
    Constitution         16                    20
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             12                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
    Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II
    Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization II
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    The pally splash adds a nice boost to survivability while leveling, between higher saves & pally wands (Cure, Resist Energy, etc.); FoP lets me dump WIS and not care about it (in fact the +2 WIS tome is basically a waste). But it is sacrificing the capstone; that may well adversely affect its endgame hate-tanking enough that I'll probably either TR or LR into pure ftr.

    Note that I cooked up this build quite a while ago. With the U9 changes to the shield feats, I'm debating adding them to the mix.
    Yup, that is basicly why i doubt between a 18/2 pally/ftr or a 18/2 ftr/pally. The loads of feats i will miss as main pally that would otherwise increase damage. I dont know if the smites will compensate enough the get enough damage/aggro going on...

  13. #13
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Both the capstones look really good though with the fighters giving 10% double-strike (10% more hate) and the pally allowing you to bypass devil DR with an Epic Brigand's Cutlass or Choas Blade.

  14. #14
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrightAsh View Post
    Yup, that is basicly why i doubt between a 18/2 pally/ftr or a 18/2 ftr/pally. The loads of feats i will miss as main pally that would otherwise increase damage. I dont know if the smites will compensate enough the get enough damage/aggro going on...
    I fit all the feats quite well IMHO into my Pally18/Fighter2 build a few posts up....also Divine Righteousness definitely compensates for the difference in DPS due to the extra feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Both the capstones look really good though with the fighters giving 10% double-strike (10% more hate) and the pally allowing you to bypass devil DR with an Epic Brigand's Cutlass or Choas Blade.
    The main issue with the Fighter capstone DS stuff is If I understand double strike correctly it requires an off hand weapon..yes? I don't think a shield counts.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 04-07-2011 at 10:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  15. #15
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    Why on earth would you take FOP with 2 pali levels. your CHA bonus is already applied to all of your saves. makes it a wasted feat slot.

  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    The main issue with the Fighter capstone DS stuff is If I understand double strike correctly it requires an off hand weapon..yes? I don't think a shield counts.
    ??? Where did you hear that? Doublestrike applies to main hand only, regardless of THF, TWF, or S&B. A big part of why TWF builds complained about the change from +10% atk speed is it nerfed their DPS relative to THF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syerson View Post
    Why on earth would you take FOP with 2 pali levels. your CHA bonus is already applied to all of your saves. makes it a wasted feat slot.
    FoP uses CHA instead of WIS for Will saves; Divine Grace applies CHA to all saves. They're considered separate effects, so they stack, which lets me dump-stat WIS without totally gimping my Will saves. EDIT: so adding a +6 CHA item gets me +3 Reflex & Fort and +6 Will.
    Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  17. #17
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    ??? Where did you hear that? Doublestrike applies to main hand only, regardless of THF, TWF, or S&B. A big part of why TWF builds complained about the change from +10% atk speed is it nerfed their DPS relative to THF.
    Oh ok cool sorry i don't play melee toons much
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  18. #18
    Community Member BananaHat's Avatar
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    Doublestrike only applies to your main hand. it is a straight percentage to strike again with your main hand weapon. Maybe you are thinking of two-weapon fighting.

    A side note: improved shield mastery will increase the shield mastery bonus by 5% in the new update. Tower shields would then grant 25% DR on physical attacks. I think it applies after standard DR since it refers to physical damage vulnerability. This is the same way dungeon scaling works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin
    I've never seen someone at a tabletop game say "I jump up on the wall until I get stuck in a spot where I can hit the giant but he can't hit me back for no apparent reason."

  19. #19
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaHat View Post
    A side note: improved shield mastery will increase the shield mastery bonus by 5% in the new update. Tower shields would then grant 25% DR on physical attacks. I think it applies after standard DR since it refers to physical damage vulnerability. This is the same way dungeon scaling works.
    No its been confirmed it goes like this: 100 Damage dealt - 25% = 75 - 5 Dr/- = 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  20. #20
    Community Member
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    Default My S&B IntimiHater

    This is the intimitank build I rolled for U9. I went Half-Elf with the Barb Dilletante, which let me squeeze out a 20 base con.

    AFter reading the thread on Sword & Board & intimitanking on the Lam forums, I decided to go
    12ftr/6pal/2rog Stalwart Defender II

    This gives plenty of feats, evasion if I want to pajama style (Though I got a set of Epic calvary plate in bank for him), UMD, and a SA die, the tierI Pal abilities, including the uber Divine Righteousness.
    With SDII and Divine righteousness, this build is sitting on +133% threat bonus w/o gear.
    When Initiming with a Shield, he'll have +233% threat for 12 seconds, w/o any special gear.

    I took intim, with the Half-Elf 2nd shot for extra usefulness.

    Went Bastard Sword with Improved Shield bash (the 20% shield bash proc helps with DPS). Went full THF line for glancing bows with BS, plus I can always whip out a falchion if I'm straight DPSing. And took SHield Mastery for the Damage Resistance (which is taken off top).

    Debating on whether to take Improved Shield mastery/Combat Expertise. I took WF Slashing and WS/GWS for more DPS with bastard sword or falchion. Plus with Fighter Haste Boost IV, DS I/ESI, and DMI, will have some respectable burst DPS.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    MherlhonFPR IrTreides D'Ilsemere
    Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
    (12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 394
    Spell Points: 25 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 29
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 21
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    26
    Dexterity            10                    12
    Constitution         16                    20
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             14                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                    11
    Bluff                 2                     4
    Concentration         3                     7
    Diplomacy             6                    10
    Disable Device        2                     3
    Haggle                2                     4
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                  0                     1
    Intimidate            6                    35
    Jump                  7                    18
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently         0                     1
    Open Lock             4                     5
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     2
    Search                5                     6
    Spot                  3                     4
    Swim                  3                     8
    Tumble                3                     4
    Use Magic Device      6                    27
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
    Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Falchion Specialization I
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Constitution I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
    Last edited by mournbladereigns; 04-08-2011 at 08:21 AM.

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