Advice on bard Build

[R0cksteady]

I didn't really look too much into this build, and have little experience with bards. However, I do see a lot of 16/2/2 builds with this class split so I built it with that. Keep in mind, feats will not be taken in this order (Otherwise it would be a **** build until level 18). Any advice would be appreciated, I haven't rolled it yet.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Wamalam 
Level 20 Chaotic Good Half-Orc Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 280
Spell Points: 545 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 12
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    30
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          6                     6
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 9
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 9
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    12
Bluff                 2                     4
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                6                    27
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            2                     8
Jump                  7                    12
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               6                    27
Repair               -2                    -2
Search               -2                    -2
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  5                    10
Tumble               n/a                    1
Use Magic Device      6                    30

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

I'm mostly wondering how much the 2 rogue will really add, since my reflex save is so low. Should I bother with it and just go 18/2 with fighter levels? Or add 2 barb levels instead?

[dkyle]

Starting CHA is excessive. I would put 16 in CON, and 12 in CHA. Spending 4 build points on 14 CHA instead of 12 CHA is a waste.

SF: UMD is ok, but you'll want to plan to swap that out once you get some better gear, I think. A +6 CHA-skills GS item should get your UMD high enough for no-fail heal scrolls without swapping gear, and any more than that is unnecessary.

As far as Rogue vs Barb, on a THF, Rogue isn't that great, compared to on a TWF. Barb might make more sense in this case.

2ftr alone is pointless unless you care about future-proofing your build. You don't get anything important at Bard 17 and 18.

[voodoogroves]

The 2 rogue levels are usually for Evasion and Trap skills; I'm not sure you'll get much mileage out of either of those with a low INT and low DEX.

Consider 2 barb instead; War Chanter grants extra rages.

[Mangloid]

As pointed out by another poster, the two rogue levels are for evasion (and a little added back stab). With such a low dex, the rogue levels are a waste. If you insist on going the 6/2/2 split, I'd suggest adding two barbarian levels in place of the rogue. With your proposed build it will get you far more mileage than the rogue levels.

The two fighter levels are for two additional feats and access to fighter str I, and fighter attack speed boost.

Personally, I'd suggest that you take a look at the Classic Rock HOs build http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...48&postcount=4

It's a pure bard build instead of a split. The advantages to that are that you'll have better buffing songs than a split. Future access to Tier III pre's.

There are pros and cons to following either route. Do a little research, read up on them, and then make a decision on what fits your play style the best. Good Luck and happy hunting

[R0cksteady]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Wamalam 
Level 20 Chaotic Good Half-Orc Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 500 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    30
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         16                    19
Intelligence          6                     6
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                     7
Bluff                 1                     3
Concentration         3                     4
Diplomacy             1                     3
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                    26
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            1                     7
Jump                  5                    10
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               5                    26
Repair               -2                    -2
Search               -2                    -2
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  5                    10
Tumble                1                     1
Use Magic Device      5                    29

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Barbarian)


Level 5 (Barbarian)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II

Does this look any better?

I have very little experience with split builds. My biggest concerns with it are, I want it to have high haggle (None of my toons do, and I'm always poor), I want it to be viable for epics (Doesn't have to be perfect, just not gimped) and I don't want to just buff and watch like a lot of bards do. Nothing wrong with it I guess, but seems boring.

[unbongwah]

Have a look at Genghis Khan; a HO version would, I'm sure, kick major ass.

[R0cksteady]

Have a look at Genghis Khan; a HO version would, I'm sure, kick major ass.

Actually, he has a half orc version posted, and it looks VERY similar to the second build I posted. Only difference I can find is he has stunning blow and I have skill focus UMD. Which is actually what I plan on switching UMD over to once I have the gear to use a heal scroll with no fail without swapping gear. So I'm just going to go witht he second build I posted, in this case

[RoelHeeswijk]

Like the first version better.
swap 2 CHA for 2 CON for sure. Probabably even go 17 CON 9 CHA.
swap skill focus UMD for another Toughness feat.
(yes HP are important)

skip:
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I (1 AP)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I (1 AP)
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I (1 AP)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II (4 AP)
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I (1 AP)
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II (2 AP)

for:
Enhancement: Lingering Song I (1AP)
Enhancement: Lingering Song II (2AP)
Enhancement: Lingering Song III (3AP)
Enhancement: Lingering Song IV (4AP)

and i'd probably work Wand and Scroll Mastery IV and some Improve Perform in somehow.

The evasion will be nice. No autosave, probably not something I'd lead a VON6 with, but a 29ish reflex will save you from a lot of damage.
Combined with the 6.5 sneak damage it's much better than 2 barb levels. I´d even rather go 4 figther levels for (free) weapon specialization feat, toughness II and attack speed II actually.

Especially BECAUSE your int is low, the rogue skill points are nice just to get all of your non-trap skills. And don´t forget 1 skill point in open lock because with items you´ll be able to open anything non-epic.

[Gorbadoc]

I didn't really look too much into this build

There's something to remedy. It doesn't matter how awesome your build is *for someone*. You need to understand the build, so you can customize it to be awesome *for you*.

We just talked about something like this, including advice, some intelligent disagreements (not all players like the same bard style), and links to other resources:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=300945

Edit: Oh, and, of course, bard is a really cool class, though a bit complicated at first. Good luck and have fun!

[Samadhi]

The 2 rogue levels are usually for Evasion and Trap skills; I'm not sure you'll get much mileage out of either of those with a low INT and low DEX.

Consider 2 barb instead; War Chanter grants extra rages.

Reflex save is a class skill for bards. Even with a starting Dex of 8 and not wearing a Dex item you can still get an intermittently worthwhile evasion. Then once you add in backstab DPS (something a bard will have going for it constantly if even 1 other party DPS member is competent), and 2 rogue becomes hands down far more valuable than what 2 barbarian gives you.

[voodoogroves]

Reflex save is a class skill for bards. Even with a starting Dex of 8 and not wearing a Dex item you can still get an intermittently worthwhile evasion. Then once you add in backstab DPS (something a bard will have going for it constantly if even 1 other party DPS member is competent), and 2 rogue becomes hands down far more valuable than what 2 barbarian gives you.

Having played both, for my play style that wasn't the case. On a THF build I prefer more fighter/barb. On a TWF I prefer the rogue levels. That's me though, YMMV.

I'm less and less a fan of small dips anyway - 14 or pure is my preference.