Dark Monk DPS: 2 STR vs 6 WIS

[dkyle]

I'm leveling a WF Dark Monk following the Metaru build, currently level 15. When U7 comes out, I will probably TR him Half-Orc. I would like to continue to have him be a Dark Monk, but the question now is, with the ToD nerf, does it still make sense to dump WIS?

So, does it make sense, in terms of pure DPS, to drop STR by 2 in order to raise WIS by 6? In other words:

+1 attack and +1 damage to all attacks
or
+3 on ToD save DC, and +25% neg damage finisher's save DC

For a Half-Orc Monk in fire stance, this means WIS 14-2[stance]+6[item]+2[tome]+2[enh]=22 for DC of 36 at level 20. With dumped WIS, the DC would be 33. And that's assuming the WIS enhancements can be fit in without losing anything important.

With the extra 2 build points from TR, I might instead drop STR and DEX (and lose potential top tier wind stance) by 1 each, but it would still be interesting to examine 32-point builds.

Edit: forgot the base +10 on Monk saves, assuming that ToD uses the same formula as the finishers

[rimble]

I never liked the max Strength on the Metaru build. To be clear, I've never played it or anything similar to it, but maxing any stat on a Monk just seems wrong to me. That +3 applies to much more than just your ToD and D-D-D save.

[Soleran]

When you start to do epic/elite heck even normal in amrath I don't think a dc that low will make a difference worth worrying (fort is a high save for most things) about, go strength.

[dkyle]

That +3 applies to much more than just your ToD and D-D-D save.

+3 Will and +3 AC? Don't really care about either. I don't see any other Dark Monk abilities with saves worth using. They're all worthless little debuffs. I doubt +3 is going to get my stunning fist into usable range compared to stunning blow.

When you start to do epic/elite heck even normal in amrath I don't think a dc that low will make a difference worth worrying (fort is a high save for most things) about, go strength.

I was wrong about the DC, I think. It should be 36 vs. 33. Does that change anything?

[Soleran]

At 36 it would land considerably more and I would think that 1 full tod a minute would make up the difference in damage from the str bonus.

[rimble]

+3 Will and +3 AC? Don't really care about either. I don't see any other Dark Monk abilities with saves worth using. They're all worthless little debuffs. I doubt +3 is going to get my stunning fist into usable range compared to stunning blow.

Actually, it does.

SF = 10 Base + 10 Monk Levels + 6 Wisdom + 2 (?) Tactics + 10 Stunning = 38

SB = 10 Base + 15 (?) Strength + 2 (?) Tactics + 10 Stunning = 37

And Stunning Fist cycles much faster, I'd drop Stunning Blow. I like Unbalancing Strike too, but I'm a Halfling.

[voodoogroves]

For a half-orc, I probably wouldn't drop the STR for WIS.

For a warforged, I'm a huge fan. My dark monk is near cap and I'll probably TR him basically the same way. I'm running both Stunning Fist and Stunning Blow and even with pretty low WIS (12 starting + enhancements + items) I'm still stunning Amrath, Vale, Sub, whatever. If it fails on the first (Blow or Fist) I just tag the target with the other.

The key is, for me, the WF tactical boosts. Half-Orcs won't get that, so WF will be better multi-source stunners.

[Fafnir]

I was very much hoping Half Orcs would get tactics... but they didn't.

[Hokonoso]

I was very much hoping Half Orcs would get tactics... but they didn't.

im very glad they dont, the only enhancements they should get is to increase damage. im very glad there is finally a race that sacrifices everything else for dps (wf have tons of hp and tactics = not the race for max dps). with that said, the tod nerf makes me not plan to TR my monk to half-orc, my monk on the other hand will be sitting wherever i last logged her and staying there for a very long time as i play useful classes again

[rimble]

I was very much hoping Half Orcs would get tactics... but they didn't.

+4 Str (+6 for Barbarians) > +3 Tactics IMO

+4 (+6) Str AND +3 Tactics would be a bit too much.

[BDS]

^ agree, from the +6 str barbs get +3 DC to their SB anyway

[Fafnir]

Tactics is for Stunning Fist. Stunning Fist is far superior to Stunning Blow, subject to DCs. With tactics, SF DCs would be strong, giving you a much better monk.

[rimble]

Tactics is for Stunning Fist. Stunning Fist is far superior to Stunning Blow, subject to DCs. With tactics, SF DCs would be strong, giving you a much better monk.

Maybe if they had exclusionary Enhancements...that'd be kinda neat...you could take HO Strength OR HO Tactics...but not both.