Elf Kensei III / Rogue 2

[qxface]

I'm trying to make an elf kensei III with 2 levels of rogue for evasion and UMD.

Since I just have base charisma, at level 20, my UMD with full ranks in it will be 22. Is this a useful number, or should I just forget about it?

The will save seems like the weakest part of this build. Is it worth is to take some feats and enhancements to try to shore up my will save? With Iron Will, Luck of Heroes, Bullheaded and maybe Discipline as feats and Elven: Enchantment Resistance for enhancements, I could boost my will save by up to 8. Is that helpful, or will I still only be saving on a 20?

Is it worth while to take multiple toughness feats? Each additional toughness will give me 22 HP at level 20, right?

Will Stunning Blow land enough to make it worth getting? Does Stunning Blow stick an enemy into an auto-crit zone? What about Improved Trip? That takes Combat Expertise and an int of 13 to get. Is it any good for an elf who only has fighter enhancements for tactics DCs and no racial enhancements?

Thanks for any advice!

[Narcissistic_Martyr]

As for UMD: 22+3 from item CHA + 3 from cartouche +3 from skill focus + 6 CHA skills item +1 minimum roll +2 Heroism Pot= 40 and Heal scroll is 40. So yes you can get it high enough to matter.

As for saves: You didn't exactly give me enough information about your build to even make a guess. But, I personally don't bother with evasion unless I can get a save bonus in the mid 20s selfbuffed. Regarding will saves, there aren't too many things to save against that aren't taken care of by buffs or items, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. That being said, having a decent will save is definitely a good thing and you may have plenty of feats to spare depending on your build.

More Toughness: More HP isn't a bad thing if you don't have something better to spend the build points on. Especially since elves get a -2 to con and only 2 toughness enhancements.

Will stunning blow land: Again not enough information but, generally speaking, I'd say take it since you've got the extra feats. That being said, in epic I like a DC of 40+ for it to be reliable. Which means 10 +10 stunning + 4 fighter +16 from strength

Meaning strength should be 42 for stunning blow to hit reliably in epic. I'm pretty sure that you could hit that when fully geared out if you're a strength based build that is. Regardless, it's still worth it in my opinion just for the 5% chance to put a mob into autocrit.

I vote nay on improved trip unless you're an AC build that was already going to take combat expertise. Normal trip works reasonably well on it's own.

[tc12]

With Elf, were you planning 2H/Falchions or 2WF/Scimitars? DEX is cheap on an elf for helping 2wf as well as the evasion. You can start 18 16 14 8 8 8 and with just tomes, +6 items and enhancements be 34 26 24 8 8 8. Easy to achieve Reflex is then 26 (9 base +5 resist +4 GH +8 DEX).

Elf CON being low compared to Dwarf, WF & Human, more than one toughness is probably good.

Oh and for Stunning DCs note besides the Fighter Stun Enhancement line Kensai III includes an additioanl +3 on tactics making it even easier to achieve a high success-rate DC.

[Narcissistic_Martyr]

Oh and for Stunning DCs note besides the Fighter Stun Enhancement line Kensai III includes an additioanl +3 on tactics making it even easier to achieve a high success-rate DC.

Knew I forgot something...

[qxface]

Thanks for all the replies. I started with 18 STR, 16 DEX, 12 CON and 12 INT. I'm going for TWF starting with scimitars and maybe moving to kopeshes later. I started with 1 level of rogue and plan to take the second level at 10 since I can max out UMD that level as a class skill. I will be putting all level up points into STR.
I plan take all the fighter weapon focus/specialization feats and IC:Slashing and the Kensei enhancements as soon as possible. However, I'd like to grab all of these with my fighter bonus feats and save the generic feats for toughness or Will Saves or maybe Dragonmarks. The lesser dragonmark that gives you Displacement sounds nice, but I'm not sure it sounds two feats nice.
So my WIS is just base 8. If I take all 4 feats that add to will save and all 3 enhancements that add to saves against enchantments, I'd get +8 total. Is that worth it? What's a good will save to shoot for?

Thanks again for any help.

[Narcissistic_Martyr]

I've heard 35 is the number to shoot for. But honestly, FoM takes care of hold person type effects, boots of anchoring prevent banishment, and protection from evil (the spell only) prevents greater command (a bug I think since it shouldn't). Now, I'm sure that will save will be useful while leveling, but... at end game I don't think it's worth burning the feats on.

In the end, will save tends to be a thing where you either have a lot of it or you have almost none of it.

[qxface]

Thanks agan for the response. It sounds like will save will be a big investment with a pretty measly return.
Stunning blow does sound fun and only takes one feat. I'm guessing it has a fortitude save? So it would work frequently against casters. I should have a decent DEX and evasion, so maybe this chatacter's job could be running to the back of mobs to kill enemy casters. If that's the case, maybe lightning reflexes would be a decent feat choice.

[unbongwah]

Here's a build I did a while back for someone: DMed elf rogue 2 / ftr 18 Kensai with the option of a late-game respec to SD. Maybe it will give you some ideas.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
(18 Fighter \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 324
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 13
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            17                    18
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    13
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery II
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Scimitar Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Scimitar Specialization II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I