My Expectations of a New Player

[Aranticus]

the divide between the vet (i'm not referring to the pseudo vets who think their 2 shoud runs qualify them to be an authority) and the newbie is widening and its horrifying how big this divide is at present. a lot of the misunderstanding stems from both misconception and miscommunication. this thread maybe ugly, i may get neg repped but it has to be said. if you are a new player and at the end of this post you think "boy this aranticus <insert insult> is an elitist" then you are realising something and that is the truth. the truth is honest and brutal, i'm not going to pretend that i'm some politician and be PC about it here. as to the vets, chip in with your own perceptions as well so that the new players may know what its really like out there

1. perception
many people have the wrong concept that ddo is a game and must therefore be fun first. according to maslow theory of needs, each of us have a need. the need of a casual player is very different from a powergamer. the need of a new player is also different from a vet. a lot of new players thing number crunching powergamers are elitists that do not have fun.

this is a wrong perception. they are having fun, in their own way. their fun isnt about running lost in a quest, dropping into lava and holding their breath or poking at the dragon's rear end waiting for an explosive fart. a powergamer's interest is in acquiring the best gear possible and gunning for seemingly impossible feats of soloing, speed, etc. a newbie may find that the slow exploration of a quest, with the rogue scouting ahead for traps and foes, the caster in the back preparing a counterspell, etc fun. that has long since been removed from the minds of many experienced players. and the reason is they do not need to smell the flowers along the path for the 2486274th time

2. build
balance and min-maxing is an often misunderstood concept. new players generally thing of balance as something which allows them to meet new things head on and be prepared by means of spreading out the abilities and that min-maxing is something that implies the maxing of certain abilities at the expense of others

balance works real well at the lower levels as the encounters are less deadly and the ddo numbers ie to hit, damage, AC, are low enough not to be of concern. this gives new players the perception that what works at L4 must work at L10 and at L20. in reality, ddo is not a proportional game. a boss at L4 may have 500 hp, at L10 it may have 2000 hp and probably 500000 at L20. balance begins to lose focus and you will find that being specialised will actually make you perform better. this is where min-maxing comes about

min-maxing is not maxing an ability at the expense of others. min-maxing is about the maxing of an important attribute while suppressing those that are not utilised. a balanced fighter in they eyes of a new player could be one with a decent dps, nice ac, good saves all combined together. for a min-maxer, its totally different. they will take the environment into consideration and plan accordingly

consider a boss fight where the boss has a to hit of 70. a new player will load up on a shield, protection item, barkskin and think his AC of 60 rocks. unfortunately in this case, it doesnt. the boss will still only need a roll of 2 to hit. this means all that load doesnt serve a purpose! the min-maxer will use thf/twf (no shield), lose all that AC gear and load up with guard items which inflicts damage back. you are still getting hit the same amount of times but is dealing an exponetially greater amount of damage

the same can be applied to other aspects such as stat (cha and int is not really important to a barb, higher str and con is better). note that min-maxing is really to max out your best attribute by not heeding the other aspects which are not going to factor much in performance

3. attitude
learn! this is the best advice i can give any new player. there are a lot of resources out here which i didnt have when i was starting out. if you are already here, read them. if you see people asking, refer them. in quest do not be afraid to ask questions (of course please limit it to the intelligent ones ie why is a scimitar a better weapon for an elf than a longsword?" not "can i haz ya lutz?")

be unafraid to admit you are new. raid leaders want 100% success as much as possible and if you are new, they wont skip some important instructions. however, you must also know where you stand. if you are new, joining a quest/raid you have not done before on hard or elite is just asking for it. joining a lfm with "in progress", "byoh" (just in case you do not know, it means bring your own heals), "be sufficient", "zerg run", "speed" are also asking for it. in all these runs, the leader is expecting you to be knowledgable about the quest/raid and will not bother with helping you learn it

be humble. when the group leader tells you that a certain thing needs to be done, sure you can ask why but follow. many quests/raid completion runs are quite established and usually the best tried and tested method, more importantly, its about communication. if you do something differently, it may have a negative impact. if someone tells you that you need more hp, give us a break, dun tell us your 150 hp at L20 is enough. we know what is enough and 150 hp is not enough unless you are one of the top 5 players with enough skills to pull it off

4. equipment
some playes are scrooges and will save a ton of plat up and not spend a single dime. this is just asking for trouble. status removal and healing pots are typically the least anyone should have. its is your own character, to expect others to keep you on your feet just shows how irresponsible you are. you may say "but that is what the cleric is for!" so what happens if the clr happens to be healing another party member and may not attend to you immediately? what happens if you need the clr to keep removing your disease that no sp is left for heals?

gear wise, find out what is needed. in general, a vorpal, smiter, disrupter, paralyser and a metalline of pure good/holy silver/metalline flametouched iron/etc will serve you well for most quests/raids. heavy fortification and hp items are important as well. read the trade channel or server marketplace threads to see what people are WTB. this generally give you an indication that an item may be important

5. PnP
ditch whatever you learn in PnP. DDO is a whole new world. my DDO fighter has 700 buff hp, 70 str, 70 AC. i'm an equivalent of a PnP god. lots of things in PnP doesnt work the same way in DDO. lots of things are specific to DDO and not found in PnP. most vets do not really care if you have 20 yrs of PnP experience. take michael jordan for example. he plays basketball well and have 6 championship rings. he takes on baseball and golf and we all know how well those went

6. MMO
yes DDO is another MMO but there is a lot of difference from many other games out there. one of the biggest difference is the community. not many MMOs are able to survive a lean period of almost 2 years of negligible content updates, absence of communication, closure of cousin servers by respectives game providers (just in case you may not know, its shanda and codemasters) in china and europe. the level of customisation in the game in terms of character development is also seldom seen in other MMOs. like other games, the holy trinity of tank, healer, caster roles is also present in DDO. however, the roles are not limited to a few classes but rather by how the player plans and build a character, ie in DDO, its possible to have a tanking wizard. so what does all these boil down to? you could be a MMO vet with 10 years, played a dozen games but what you have learnt in the other games doesnt necessarily mean you are the authority on DDO.

7. experience
i've seen a lot of players in general chat giving advice or bragging to people. if you have gotten to L20 on 1 toon, it doesnt mean you are automatically a "vet". having played many other games, it is almost impossible to reach the highest levels without a good understanding of the games. in DDO, all this break down. the level of difficulty these days have been dumbed down by a huge margin. it is very possible for someone to join a group and get a completion without the person actually contributing anything. do not be fooled into thinking that 10 completions you have must make you an authority on shroud. i have ran with paladins who insist that their +3 holy bastard sword of maiming is better than the holy sword. there are players who swear that only mass heal should be the only acceptable healing spell, gawd, how did we managed to complete elite shroud when the cap was 16? there are casters that think that web is useless in vision of destruction. some are still in denial that the only acceptable healer in raids are clerics and favored souls

i reiterate again, having X raid completions or Y toons with Z true reincarnations doesnt mean you are an experienced player. i'm on khyber server, there are a few players who have TRed multiple times and are still avoided by the majority of the veteran players. in fact they are sometimes mocked at with multiple players lfm on the same raid. so when will you join the ranks of the vets? its really simple, when the better guilds acknowledge that you are one, you made it. how so? usually, the key indicators are how fast your raids fill, how quickly you get accepted into a raid, or if they send you a guild invite

in summary, i'm not saying you cant enjoy the game. you sure can but do it with like minded players. if you are going to run the endgame stuff with the vets/powergamers, be prepared to raise your game to a whole new level. an old saying goes, shape up or ship out. if you are not willing to do that, very soon you will find that none of them will admit you into their runs. this is a fact. this isnt a threat. people are not being elitist, people do not want their time wasted. each of us have different definitions of fun. people with different definitions of fun coming together is going to have moments of fiction. this is the truth

[Srozbun]

+1 if I could.

I've met a lot of vets with this attitude and they've really helped me enjoy the game more and develop my own characters/skills. However, some vets nowadays also have an additional skill requirement of any player who they group with it seems.

[FlyingTurtle]

Not criticising, and I usually ignore grammar/punctuation stuff, but I think you put a lot of effort into writing this thing and even took the effort to lay it out, so... I'd love to be able to read it, but I just can't. Just saying that you'll probably get more readers if you punctuate it.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Can't read it?!?! Pfft...whatever...this should not only be sticked but a mandatory must read for just about everyone who plays this game.

+1 btw.

I'll go back to my suggestion of making a questionnaire before new players can get off of Korthos....part of it should be linked to this thread.

[AyumiAmakusa]

I'd say number 5 was the mot important.

[Morningfrost]

As a new player that has experienced all of this, I wish to thank you. I think point #5 should be the first, however. And welcome back, for what it's worth.

[Irinis]

As a new player, I came in with the attitude of asking questions, telling people I was new, and listening and following advice to the best I could.

Unfortunately, it is true that different people have fun in this game in different ways.

Some people have fun by messing up other people as much as possible. If you meet obviously new players who refuse to admit they're new, that might be why. All you really can do if you come across someone who doesn't trust you enough to admit they're new, is to prove you actually ARE worthy of trust. Or, give clear directions in pugs on principle that there is probably someone new, and risk annoying all the experienced people who will then start griefing your pugs because you were too bossy for them even though you're new yourself and who do you think you are to lecture VETS. *Sigh*

[Postumus]

We are obviously playing two completely different games here. People like me are still in the "wow, this is a pretty cool game!" state of mind, and people like you are in the "if you aren't playing the right way (read: my way), you are ruining the game" mode.


I actually forced myself to read the OP and tried to empathize with him, but I don't. Not the slightest bit. Basically you've fallen victim to the mindset that every generation (in any environment) falls into: "darn punks have no idea what it used to be like! The whole world's going to hell in a hand basket!"


The reason I don't empathize with the OP is this: you don't have to play with new players. No one is forcing any of you to play with new players. You're so old skool that you should have plenty of your 'remember when' compadres to run with and shouldn't need to group with a generation of players you don't respect or even like.


Everyone runs into imbeciles and jack arses - there were a couple morons on Argo last night using the advice channel to deliver insults and physical threats, but I ID them, ignore them and move on. Continuing to lament the current state of things won't change your game experience any. I'd bet my bottom dollar that even if any of the players you describe read these forums, they sure aren't going to change b/c you disapprove of their game play.


One thing I have noticed on these forums: the whining from the "I've-been-playing-this-game-since..." players about 'teh newbs' is becoming insufferable. It's time to move on guys. Wallowing in virtual misery over an MMO is so 2008.

[Bart_D]

I really do not hope Aranticus and other vets stop playing with us newer people. Running quests with and getting advice from such people makes learning the game so much easier. Of course, people prefer to do quests at different speeds and should post/join LFMs accordingly - comments like 'BYOH' and especially 'zerg' still keeps me from joining some when i dont know the quest well and feel confident i can handle it.

[Postumus]

I really do not hope Aranticus and other vets stop playing with us newer people. Running quests with and getting advice from such people makes learning the game so much easier. Of course, people prefer to do quests at different speeds and should post/join LFMs accordingly - comments like 'BYOH' and especially 'zerg' still keeps me from joining some when i dont know the quest well and feel confident i can handle it.

I think there are plenty of people out there patient enough to deal with new players (like myself).


I haven't encountered any mentors per se, but every time I PUG I pick up a few things from the other players just from watching them.

[Ashurr]

I think there are plenty of people out there patient enough to deal with new players (like myself).


I haven't encountered any mentors per se, but every time I PUG I pick up a few things from the other players just from watching them.

Seeing as Aranticus is responsible for, basically, any decent advice you'll hear from anyone in game, I believe a "Thank you" is in order. ( take a stroll thru the Guides, New player advice forums and pretty much every build board and you'll see what I mean)

[JDCrowell]

I could not agree with you more, Aranticus!
I am defiantly a new player as my character in my sig line is my first one and obviously not even capped yet. But I will say this to all you new players: It's not other bad newbies giving us a bad rap....although it doesn't help, it's mostly yourself. Just be honest when joining an LFM. Most Vets will give you a chance to prove yourself, just make the most of it. And if you mess up just learn from it.
Listen, Learn and for crying out loud the forums are your best friend. (that or ddowiki)
Promote the forums to as many people as you can. There is a wealth of information in here. The only reason I know what I do about anything in this game, I gained from the forums
Oh ....and "Powergamers" are not evil, they are the one's that have me hooked on this game lol

[NeutronStar]

Not criticising, and I usually ignore grammar/punctuation stuff, but I think you put a lot of effort into writing this thing and even took the effort to lay it out, so... I'd love to be able to read it, but I just can't. Just saying that you'll probably get more readers if you punctuate it.

Aranticus is from Singapore and his native tongue is Chinese (Mandarin or Cantonese I don't remember which) so you'll have to forgive him for not using punctuation exactly right. I think he does a pretty good job with English myself.

[Aranticus]

Aranticus is from Singapore and his native tongue is Chinese (Mandarin or Cantonese I don't remember which) so you'll have to forgive him for not using punctuation exactly right. I think he does a pretty good job with English myself.

actually i can punctuate well, but

1. While participating on the Community Sites, you must respect the rights of others to participate in the community. To this end you may not harass, defraud, threaten or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other members or Turbine staff. This includes, but is not limited to:

Name-calling or other insults
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Flaming another user for their spelling or grammar
Bringing disagreements with someone into unrelated threads or blog posts/comments
Creating a thread, post, or comment on any of the Community Sites that calls out another player(s) for their actions in the game

i'm just to lazy to do it right and its not an infractable offense to post something without proper spelling, grammer or punctuation (note punctuation falls under the grammer category as it is part of sentence structure). however, its is an offense under the turbine offense to call me out on it. should i hit the report button?

[BattleCircle]

actually i can punctuate well, but



i'm just to lazy to do it right and its not an infractable offense to post something without proper spelling, grammer or punctuation (note punctuation falls under the grammer category as it is part of sentence structure). however, its is an offense under the turbine offense to call me out on it. should i hit the report button?

/golfclap

[Dendrix]

We are obviously playing two completely different games here. People like me are still in the "wow, this is a pretty cool game!" state of mind, and people like you are in the "if you aren't playing the right way (read: my way), you are ruining the game" mode.

Basically you are saying "I'm right and you are wrong". And quite frankly you are wrong.

Some things experience in the game helps on immensly. People expect you to be able to perform your "job" in the group.

Why aren't you carrying Curse Removal potions as recommended?
Why aren't you carrying Lesser Restore potions as recommended?

The healers have better things to do with their time and SP that remove these effects on you.

Why don't you have 100% Fortification at level 11+ as recommended?
in fact, it's not recommended, it's pretty much required. If you don't have 100% fortification, you will die ten times as much as other people. And dead characters are useless.

[JDCrowell]

Why don't you have 100% Fortification at level 11+ as recommended?
in fact, it's not recommended, it's pretty much required. If you don't have 100% fortification, you will die ten times as much as other people. And dead characters are useless.

I learned that the hard way and didn't get mine till level 13 :/

[Aranticus]

I really do not hope Aranticus and other vets stop playing with us newer people. Running quests with and getting advice from such people makes learning the game so much easier. Of course, people prefer to do quests at different speeds and should post/join LFMs accordingly - comments like 'BYOH' and especially 'zerg' still keeps me from joining some when i dont know the quest well and feel confident i can handle it.

i have never stopped running with new players, teaching them the ins and outs of this game. in fact i often put up byoh runs to acclimatise players to be able to stand on their own feet and pulling their own weight. your attitude is commendable, you should have more faith in yourself and explore more of your capabilities

We are obviously playing two completely different games here. People like me are still in the "wow, this is a pretty cool game!" state of mind, and people like you are in the "if you aren't playing the right way (read: my way), you are ruining the game" mode.

I actually forced myself to read the OP and tried to empathize with him, but I don't. Not the slightest bit. Basically you've fallen victim to the mindset that every generation (in any environment) falls into: "darn punks have no idea what it used to be like! The whole world's going to hell in a hand basket!"

there are times when experience counts for something and there are times one need to risk to get rewards. if i've fallen victim to the mindset of the "older" generation, then you too would have fallen victim to the mindset of the generation after that goes: ""what the heck do these old blocks know, its now the new age! to hell with history". guess what? history repeats itself as people fail to learn from the mistakes the previous generations make. there is a difference being wise and being a smart alec

The reason I don't empathize with the OP is this: you don't have to play with new players. No one is forcing any of you to play with new players. You're so old skool that you should have plenty of your 'remember when' compadres to run with and shouldn't need to group with a generation of players you don't respect or even like.

do i have to run with them? no. but when you are going to join my raid, its my group, my run. you respect me, you listen to me, you follow instruction, simple as that. if you want to run it your way, feel free to start your own runs but point is, my runs are good, they complete with minimum fuss. that is the respect you are talking about. you want your respect? earn it

Everyone runs into imbeciles and jack arses - there were a couple morons on Argo last night using the advice channel to deliver insults and physical threats, but I ID them, ignore them and move on. Continuing to lament the current state of things won't change your game experience any. I'd bet my bottom dollar that even if any of the players you describe read these forums, they sure aren't going to change b/c you disapprove of their game play.


One thing I have noticed on these forums: the whining from the "I've-been-playing-this-game-since..." players about 'teh newbs' is becoming insufferable. It's time to move on guys. Wallowing in virtual misery over an MMO is so 2008.

unfortunately, there are a lot of such players that i have described that read the forums and they come with the same attitude like yours. in as much a way that "i'm wallowing in 2008" the same thing can be said of your "chest puffing"

I think there are plenty of people out there patient enough to deal with new players (like myself).

I haven't encountered any mentors per se, but every time I PUG I pick up a few things from the other players just from watching them.

ask around, i helped A LOT of players. you have no idea what i do, whom i helped, what i said. the OP is a reflection of what i did when i first played this game. it is also a reflection of what is happening now. the world while always moving forward, has it cycles

Cleverness is not wisdom. - Euripides

[sephiroth1084]

Another well-written post from the mind of Aranticus. +1.

Not criticising, and I usually ignore grammar/punctuation stuff, but I think you put a lot of effort into writing this thing and even took the effort to lay it out, so... I'd love to be able to read it, but I just can't. Just saying that you'll probably get more readers if you punctuate it.

He broke up the lines and paragraphs well enough to be readable (this coming from someone who tends to bristle at poor punctuation and grammar usually).

Oh, and -1 to Postumus for bringing basically the exact attitude to this helpful thread as the thread is designed to overcome. The point is that vets don't necessarily want to run with the same people they've been running with for a year, or two, or four all the time just because new players are making absolutely zero effort to learn to play the game as anything more than casual bystanders with events flowing around them.

Many of us enjoy meeting new people, or helping others, but it's hard to justify when so many players who refuse to take even the simplest advise, follow directions and ask questions are flooding the game and ruining the experience for other players. And I say this as someone who does occasionally still like "smell the roses runs" such as getting Conquest in Stormcleave, despite the fact that running it twice or thrice in the same amount of time is better XP than once with Conquest.

If all of the people with your apparent attitude steered clear of LFMs for Hard and Elite quests, speed runs, BYOH runs, "be self-sufficient" runs, epic runs, under-level runs, short-man runs, "know the way" runs and the "be competent" or "be knowledgeable/know the quest" runs, then it might be less of an issue, but the fact is, many don't. I don't know if it's because they think too highly of themselves, don't realize that they aren't very good yet, can't read, won't read, or intend to pike, but these people ruin the experience of others more assuredly than vets posting on the forums lamenting these folks. And most of them could avoid this simply by asking questions, reading and listening a little bit.

[NaturalHazard]

why do you think you would get neg repped for this?