Norelco Steel - Short Swords Build

[OldAquarian]

Two Weapon Short Swords - In monk stance with drow racials and tempest ii
Lift and Cut

Based on comments in my Exploitress thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=269696
(Also check original Exploiter thread fro gear, etc)

(Can also be viable as a halfling)
(All tomes are optional and included for comparison with other builds that add +2 all)

Skills to MAX:
UMD
Search
Disable Device
Concentration
Jump

Point in Tumble
Point In Open Lock
-- rest in Balance


Updated based on feedback

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Norelco Steel
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(7 Monk \ 1 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 304
Spell Points: 219 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 20
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity            14                    20
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom               14                    18
Charisma             10                    12

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Ranger)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Ranger)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Monk Jump I
Enhancement: Monk Jump II
Enhancement: Monk Tumble I
Enhancement: Monk Tumble II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II

[k1ngp1n]

Mental Toughness?

[OldAquarian]

Could swap MT to Toughness - need to figure how much is needed for buffing

100 Sp vs 22 HP

[Emizand]

Shortswords are piercing weapons. So do you want imp crit slash?

[unbongwah]

Unless you really want CE at 1st lvl, I would drop base INT to 12 and boost DEX to 16 for the +1 AC & Reflex save. [Actually, I'd be tempted to do a Finesse build, but that's just me.] Also, what Emizand said: sway Imp Crit Slash for Pierce if the plan is to use short swords.

[OldAquarian]

Unless you really want CE at 1st lvl, I would drop base INT to 12 and boost DEX to 16 for the +1 AC & Reflex save. [Actually, I'd be tempted to do a Finesse build, but that's just me.] Also, what Emizand said: swap Imp Crit Slash for Pierce if the plan is to use short swords.

Swapped to Imp:Pierce and Swapped out Mental Toughness for Imp:Bludge for handwraps

Curious what dps diff would be be between SSwords and Unhanded now, but now you will do well with either

[karl_k0ch]

Maxed Jump seems odd to me for a Str based Char who can cast the jump spell from the ranger list. I know, Jump competes with Resist Energy 30 and Ram's Might, but I didn't miss Jump skill points so far.

In what sense does Wis contribute to this build? AC, SP and Will save? If this is all, I'd rather start with 16/16/12/12/12/10. This way, AC stays the same and you trade one Will and some SP against one Reflex. Switch CE and a Toughness and take a +1 tome, if you want CE early on.

Does this build aim for high AC? if yes, how much can it obtain? (If needed, one could go from my stats with -1 Str +2 Wis)

At first glance, I see the following standing/easily buffable bonuses:

10 base
6 from 14 dex + 2 tome + 6 item = 22
6 from 14 wis + 2 tome + 6 item = 22
3 shield (Tempest II)
2 monk centered
5 barkskin
8 ac bracers
= 40 (45 with CE active), without any raid gear.

[OldAquarian]

Maxed Jump seems odd to me for a Str based Char who can cast the jump spell from the ranger list. I know, Jump competes with Resist Energy 30 and Ram's Might, but I didn't miss Jump skill points so far.

In what sense does Wis contribute to this build? AC, SP and Will save? If this is all, I'd rather start with 16/16/12/12/12/10. This way, AC stays the same and you trade one Will and some SP against one Reflex. Switch CE and a Toughness and take a +1 tome, if you want CE early on.

Does this build aim for high AC? if yes, how much can it obtain? (If needed, one could go from my stats with -1 Str +2 Wis)

At first glance, I see the following standing/easily buffable bonuses:

10 base
11 from 14 dex + 2 tome + 6 item = 22
11 from 14 wis + 2 tome + 6 item = 22
3 whirling steel
2 monk centered
5 barkskin
8 ac bracers
= 50 (55 with CE active), without any raid gear.

What is the 3 from whirling steel from?

[unbongwah]

11 from 14 dex + 2 tome + 6 item = 22
11 from 14 wis + 2 tome + 6 item = 22
3 whirling steel

Your AC calculations are a bit off. DEX & WIS 22 only provide +6 each: (22 - 10) / 2. So you've overestimated by 10 AC. I presume by "whirling steel" you mean Tempest II.

[karl_k0ch]

Your AC calculations are a bit off. DEX & WIS 22 only provide +6 each: (22 - 10) / 2. So you've overestimated by 10 AC. I presume by "whirling steel" you mean Tempest II.

Indeed. I would +1 your post, if I could.

I forgot the -10 part. Fixed those numbers, my bad.

Yes, the "+3 whirling steel", as I called it originally, is the shield bonus you get from Tempest II. I did call it that because the full name of the "stance" which grants you that bonus calls itself "Shield of Whirling Steel". Changed that to Tempest II for clarity.

[OldAquarian]

Maxed Jump seems odd to me for a Str based Char who can cast the jump spell from the ranger list. I know, Jump competes with Resist Energy 30 and Ram's Might, but I didn't miss Jump skill points so far.

In what sense does Wis contribute to this build? AC, SP and Will save? If this is all, I'd rather start with 16/16/12/12/12/10. This way, AC stays the same and you trade one Will and some SP against one Reflex. Switch CE and a Toughness and take a +1 tome, if you want CE early on.

Does this build aim for high AC? if yes, how much can it obtain? (If needed, one could go from my stats with -1 Str +2 Wis)

At first glance, I see the following standing/easily buffable bonuses:

10 base
6 from 14 dex + 2 tome + 6 item = 22
6 from 14 wis + 2 tome + 6 item = 22
3 shield (Tempest II)
2 monk centered
5 barkskin
8 ac bracers
= 40 (45 with CE active), without any raid gear.

1 +2 Monk Wisdom Enh
1 +2 Drow Dexterity Enh
1 +2 Ranger Dexterity Enh
1 +2 Dexterity - Wind Stance
1 Dodge
= 45 (50 with CE)

(Also +4 AC when Tumbling)

[OldAquarian]

Now that we have the Base AC figured, any other comments?

[Kumorijin]

yeah, this has been tried over and over again but theres a reason why this short sword style build and all of its cousins aren't very popular, because compared to everything else its just not that effective.

heres what i think, and anyone can comment if they think otherwise because i've looked into a viable short sword build many times over.

1. short swords suck, you should go w/ a build that uses kopeshes, rapiers, or pure monk for the d20 fists. i'd even go w/ a THF greatsword build before shortswords.

2. drow suck at most builds except a few like bards, sorcs, paladins. i'd go w/ the halfling like you stated above for the extra sneak dmg

3. 7 levels of dark monk is a waste. 7 levels if you were going light path but then again thats not for this build is it? the only other decent builds i saw on here was a mnk12/rog7/ftr1 and a mnk13/ftr6/rog1. these were switch hitters that used a monks unarmed ToD for bosses and the like and vorpaling/radiance shortswords on trash mobs. this seemed viable but again most would rather go finesse/rapiers, kopeshes or something else.

4. if built with rog skills in mind, there are other builds, some like the ones above that could have better skills

[OldAquarian]

yeah, this has been tried over and over again but theres a reason why this short sword style build and all of its cousins aren't very popular, because compared to everything else its just not that effective.

heres what i think, and anyone can comment if they think otherwise because i've looked into a viable short sword build many times over.

1. short swords suck, you should go w/ a build that uses kopeshes, rapiers, or pure monk for the d20 fists. i'd even go w/ a THF greatsword build before shortswords.

2. drow suck at most builds except a few like bards, sorcs, paladins. i'd go w/ the halfling like you stated above for the extra sneak dmg

3. 7 levels of dark monk is a waste. 7 levels if you were going light path but then again thats not for this build is it? the only other decent builds i saw on here was a mnk12/rog7/ftr1 and a mnk13/ftr6/rog1. these were switch hitters that used a monks unarmed ToD for bosses and the like and vorpaling/radiance shortswords on trash mobs. this seemed viable but again most would rather go finesse/rapiers, kopeshes or something else.

4. if built with rog skills in mind, there are other builds, some like the ones above that could have better skills

1 short swords in general lose out to higher crit ranges - however in wind stance thats extra speed which means you should at least provide some math opposed to making it seem obvious

2 drow = +2 Attack/Defense against all - this is comparitable to halfling +SA - which is situational.

3 can't use short swords as Light - and going longswords is +1 better on average, gains next stance but loses tempest II - again

4 what skills do you see missing?