Hunter of the Dead

[Spiderwight]

So - the common wisdom appears to be that Hunter of the Dead is a fairly inferior prestige enhancement line compared to the endgame DPS of KOTC or the tanking boosts of DoS.

I've mostly played wizards or clerics before, but I rolled up a paladin a month or two ago, discovered I liked it and decided to level him up. Most of my other characters are below 10th (I'm a chronic altoholic, and my guild likes to take our time and smell the flowers) so it didn't take long for some speedy soloing to get me to a level where the adventures were all new to me. I've pugged here and there, but for the most part I've been soloing (with or without a hireling cleric.)

Now, when I hit 6th, I figured HotD would be the best prestige line to take - at least for the time being. I was going to be running Delera's and the Necropolis a fair bit, there are plenty of other undead bashes, and I could always re-spec into KotC once I started running into Evil Outsiders later on.

Now, eight levels later, I think I might be addicted to Hunter. Ghost Touch is nice, Restoration is really handy, the extra Turn Undeads mean I never run out of Divine Might and I'll never sneer at more healing amp. But what's going to be REALLY hard to give up is Sealed Soul. Between Paladin saves, Sealed Soul and a deathblock robe, I now laugh in Beholders' faces while I chop them up - something I found hard to imagine a couple of levels ago.

I presume that the next few levels will see increasing numbers of Evil Outsiders, and there'll come a point when it makes sense to switch to KotC instead. But I fear that like all addicts, I may not be able to objectively judge what's best for me. Advice sought: by what point do you think I really should have switched over? Or is Hunter actually superior for a mostly solo player who barely raids at all?

[Gercho]

By the time you hit the vale you should respec, before you could still use hunter of the dead, about the benefits of HotD:

Ghost touch: get spectral gloves.
Inmunity to lvl drain: this is nice, but you can get the silver flame amulet to fight beholders.
Extra turn: i never run out of turns with my KotC either...
Restoration: nice, but you have unyielding, +lesser restoration +scrolls eventually
Healing amp: nice, but in the end doesnt makes much difference...

Anyway, if you get spectral gloves and the silver flame amulet that absorbs the energy drains, you get most of the benefits of HotD, and remember that the KotC damage bonus works against undead aswell...

[Diyon]

and remember that the KotC damage bonus works against undead aswell...

But that's a bug to fixed at some undetermined date, right?

[Spiderwight]

and remember that the KotC damage bonus works against undead as well...

Really? I thought the KotC damage bonus was only against Evil Outsiders. Though I'm prepared to be wrong there - I've obviously got no experience of playing one.

((Edit to add: Ahh, I wasn't aware of that bug. Still, while I won't bank on it being around for ever, at least it means that in the short term, KotC might be the better line already.))

I guess I should run Necro properly and start farming Offering of Blood for gloves... You're probably right about the other benefits not being so vital.

[Gercho]

the damage bonus against undead its supposed to be a bug, i never saw a developer aknowledging it as a bug, not saying that they never did, just that i never saw one, in any case, has been common knowledge that the damage applies to undead for a really long while, and never got fixed... that could mean that is a very low priority bug, or that developers dont mean to fix it... in any case, respeccing enhancements is so easy that if at some point they fix it, and you consider that kotc is not worthy any more you can respec...

I presonally would have kotc anyway even if wouldnt affect undead, though you could consider undead to be outsiders (since they are living partially in another plane) and they are certainly evil

[sigtrent]

But that's a bug to fixed at some undetermined date, right?

That's what they tell us but they haven't fixed it yet which tells me its not high on the priority list and the paladin end cap is supposed to work that way. I'm guessing its mostly here to stay for a while.

I like HOTD for the amp, but I have an Amp character (which can by the way make a big difference if you build for it). I can throw a cure serious for 330 hp on myself at a cost of about 35 mana mostly due to healing amp. But it does take a lot more than just what you get from HOTD.

The immunity to neg levels is definitely the best thing in HOTD. I love fighting beholders. you can replace most of it with gear, although the silver flame pendant has its limits in a quest with lots of beholders and other neg-level hits and things like the spectral gloves are fairly rare finds. It all depends on your goal. If you like being invincible its a great line, if you want to lay the beat down then KOTC is the way to go and if you want to be a tank then Siberys is awesome.

I think paladins really have a great selection of PREs to choose from.

[Spiderwight]

Rarity of Spectral Gloves might be an issue. I'm not sure I have the patience to farm Offering a hundred times - what's the average drop rate?

On the other hand, I could just buy some ghost touch weapons. Ghost touch weapon + PG/Elemental + KOTC damage bonus is going to be comparable to Greater Undead Bane + HotD Innate Ghost Touch in any case. That's far from a deal breaker. The difficult bit is going to be having to worry about Beholders again. That said, my wife murders them fairly reliably on a fighter with no immunities at all, so maybe I should just man up.

I'd agree that Paladins do seem fairly spoiled for choice when it comes to PrE's. Not that I'm complaining, you understand.

[elraido]

Rarity of Spectral Gloves might be an issue. I'm not sure I have the patience to farm Offering a hundred times - what's the average drop rate?

On the other hand, I could just buy some ghost touch weapons. Ghost touch weapon + PG/Elemental + KOTC damage bonus is going to be comparable to Greater Undead Bane + HotD Innate Ghost Touch in any case. That's far from a deal breaker. The difficult bit is going to be having to worry about Beholders again. That said, my wife murders them fairly reliably on a fighter with no immunities at all, so maybe I should just man up.

I'd agree that Paladins do seem fairly spoiled for choice when it comes to PrE's. Not that I'm complaining, you understand.

You also forgot the instant kill "vorpal" they can do on undead. you combine that with a disruption weapon and it is a rather entertaining time vs undead.

honestly, I don't like KOTC all that much. I KNOW the game is all about DPS and current end game is outsiders, so it works well. The only thing is, it is a one trick pony.

[Spiderwight]

Well, I didn't so much forget as be four levels away from discovering it. :-)

Take your point that KotC might get a bit dull with being a one-trick pony, but for the time being I have the sense of wonder that comes from playing quests for the first time so I suspect that won't be a problem. I can always re-spec back if I find it bores me.

The question is whether KotC or HotD is a better choice for mostly solo levelling from 14-Vale. I had assumed that the survivability of HotD made it the better choice, but killing stuff faster brings a survivability of its own. Honestly, if there were Potions of Restoration available, I think it would be a no-brainer choice.

[JohnnyDND]

HotD sounds like a cool route, anyone have a guide or link to one for it? I searched the Compendium and only found a basic description and any builds I found listed included multiclassing monk plus others.

[JohnnyDND]

nm thx wiki

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Currently the highest lvl quests do not have a lot of undead in them. And the highest lvl raids have Devils as raid bosses.

Plus there are other ways to get some of the benefits of HotD as people have mentioned.


But it's not a bad PRe. Epsecialy for a large part of the game.

And I believe that we will be seeing more undead someday soon. (soon in DDO terms that is. )

[Junts]

Every ability you just listed can be duplicated with gear, including sealed soul.

Its not like the best gloves in the game give all your weapons ghosttouch or that there are 10 charge, easy to acquire amulets that absorb enervations or anything. Or that your class can use restore scrolls without a umd check.

Oh wait, yes there are.

[Spiderwight]

Okay - point taken. I'll go get my farming hat on. :-)

[RealKorike]

I think the most important thing is to play what YOU like, not what other's tell you is the way to go. Especially if you like to play solo. If you aren't going to raid with that toon, why worry about the fact that most raid mobs are affected by KotC damage? Why worry about farming to get the gear that duplicates what your enhancements give you.

It's YOUR time spent in game, not theirs

[orochinaga]

I'm a chronic altoholic

Related song :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ept-e...os=Pnkqj_Gfk28

[Meetch1972]

I enjoyed HoTD right up to level 20. No problems there, and it's great if you wanna run back through Necro 1-4 vorpalling most shambling things with any returning throwing axe... the DPS isn't particularly great, but the self-sufficiency through relatively short quests and the ability to chainsaw his way through undead makes it quite enjoyable.

What I didn't do was spend much time doing vale stuff/devils/orthons - he's good, no doubt there, but can't bring 'em down as fast as he should. That's next with the KoTC respec for vale farming (or I may just TR him and use some of that named gear he picked up that's good for rogues).

It was my first toon, so I made some mistakes, but I'll manage with them. Still, if I'd seen Junts' guide before I got going, then I might not have enjoyed the HoTD ride.

Edit: When I say vale farming, of course I mean shroud ... 'n' stuff.

[Spiderwight]

Oh, I'm not about to stop playing in a way I enjoy. This toon is the first one I've really put effort into levelling with any speed, and I've been quite surprised how much enjoment I got from efficient levelling; I thought re-running the same quests several times would get boring, but the challenge of getting the completion time down as far as I can has more than made up for that.

I figure I'll probably stick with Hunter until I start to run into a lot of Evil Outsiders, then I'll nip back and blow through Necro 3 a couple of times for the Silver Flame trinket before respeccing into KotC. (An LR to switch from 2HF to 2WF is sort of tempting, but on the other hand I do have a nice collection of Greater Bane greatswords and falchions now...) But even at 15th I still have the Orchard quests and almost all of Gianthold still untouched. Although, unless I've misunderstood how the relic gathering works, Gianthold looks like it might become a bit of a painful grind.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Although, unless I've misunderstood how the relic gathering works, Gianthold looks like it might become a bit of a painful grind.

You need the 20 (I believe) of each relics once per character that you want flagged. Turn them in, and you can enter Tor whenever you want. Slay all three dragons in Tor (does not have the be the same trip) and you're flagged for Reaver's Fate.

Since you can get 1-3 per quest, and can get one for each rare, it's not that bad. There's even a 3->1 trade NPC. And if you're in a guild with older players, or have some cash to peruse the Auctions, you can generally snag some from either or both of those fairly cheap.

[Spiderwight]

Okay - that's not quite as bad as I initially read it, if quests can drop 1-3. I figured I was going to be running three quests twenty times each to flag for Tor.

(Yes, yes, n00b. Should go read the wiki, etc. )