Evasion Paladin Number 9001

[xAlistairx]

Alright, I realize there are a lot of evasion paladin builds out there. I decided to make mine an intimitank bastard sword user due to the glancing blows. I tried to look at other paladin intimitank builds and other evasion paladin builds, but I'm not sure if my AC is high enough, or my health, or what, so I thought I'd post it here and see if it would be a good build. Thanks for helping!

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Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 324
Spell Points: 245 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 19
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    19
Dexterity            13                    16
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                9                     9
Charisma             14                    16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    11
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         2                     5
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                6                     7
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  5                     7
Intimidate            6                    28
Jump                  6                     8
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         5                     7
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                2                     4
Spot                  3                     5
Swim                  6                    12
Tumble                5                     7
Use Magic Device      6                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II

[unbongwah]

Drow seems like an odd choice for this build, since you didn't go for TWF w/rapiers like most drow paladins. You don't even fully exploit their CHA bonus. Plus you have to waste two feats on bastard sword & tower shield proficiency. I would think dwarf would be a better choice: more HPs, higher max AC (thru dwarf Armor Mastery), better DPS from DAxes (while tanking) & greataxes (while DPSing), saves a feat.

I also think some of your feats are questionable. I believe any tank-y build should have Power Attack & Combat Expertise, at the very least, so you can switch between DPS & AC mode.

[xAlistairx]

Drow seems like an odd choice for this build, since you didn't go for TWF w/rapiers like most drow paladins. You don't even fully exploit their CHA bonus. Plus you have to waste two feats on bastard sword & tower shield proficiency. I would think dwarf would be a better choice: more HPs, higher max AC (thru dwarf Armor Mastery), better DPS from DAxes (while tanking) & greataxes (while DPSing), saves a feat.

I also think some of your feats are questionable. I believe any tank-y build should have Power Attack & Combat Expertise, at the very least, so you can switch between DPS & AC mode.

I picked drow because I don't have 32 point builds and it gave three bonuses to things I needed. However, the dwarven higher max ac isn't really right. I'd have to use light armor anyways, for the dex bonus, but mainly for evasion. Good point about dwarven axes saving a feat, but I think I'll keep this drow for personal preference/flavor and since I lack 32 point builds.

I don't know why I didn't pick power attack. I think I ran out of feats or something.

Now, as far as combat expertise there's a good reason I didn't pick that. I believe it doesn't stack with the paladin defensive stance granted from DoS. Since I'd need tower shields anyways, I figured I'd use the generic Defensive Fighting until level 7. It saves me a feat. Someone tell me if this is an extremely bad choice.

[unbongwah]

The pally tank AC calculations I have seen include both DoS stance and CE; so either they stack or the builds I've looked at are wrong.

[herzkos]

pally DoS and combat exp do indeed stack, or at least they did last time i logged into my pally.

[KKDragonLord]

Im not sure this is really over 9000...

[xAlistairx]

pally DoS and combat exp do indeed stack, or at least they did last time i logged into my pally.

They DO!? Are you sure? That kind of changes everything if they do. I thought they didn't since almost nothing stacks in this game (plus I think I read it somewhere), and figured why get it at the same level I'm getting my stance...

Im not sure this is really over 9000...

I'm glad you got the joke.

But aside from the combat expertise and stance stacking, how's the build?

[KKDragonLord]

I'm glad you got the joke.

But aside from the combat expertise and stance stacking, how's the build?

I don't do AC builds...
for now at least. lets wait for some better peeps to comment

[dragons1ayer74]

What is the purpose for those starting stats.....

On a drow why not something like?
STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA: 17

or

STR: 16
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

or

STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

If you are really only ever going weapon and shield style Dex should be a 10 and put the 2 extra build points into CHA or STR or INT to some day get CE.

[KKDragonLord]

What is the purpose for those starting stats.....

On a drow why not something like?
STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA: 17

or

STR: 16
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

or

STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

If you are really only ever going weapon and shield style Dex should be a 10 and put the 2 extra build points into CHA or STR or INT to some day get CE.

You can save a lot of points by skipping the last tier of Divine might.
A +2 tome is easy.

IMO dont go higher than 16 Cha
dont pay extra for 14 Con
Do have at least 11 Int (CE is kinda important for AC)
you might want to be able to get 24 dex to max your dex AC on a mithral BP with either the daggertooth belt or an epic blue slot... 28 if you have both (you'd have to start with minimum of 14 then).
...
how about:

Str 17
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 11
Wis 8
Cha 16

[xAlistairx]

What is the purpose for those starting stats.....

On a drow why not something like?
STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA: 17

or

STR: 16
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

or

STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

If you are really only ever going weapon and shield style Dex should be a 10 and put the 2 extra build points into CHA or STR or INT to some day get CE.

I'm not going to lower intelligence because I'm putting as many points as possible into intimidate and umd.

A Mithral Tower Shield will allow me to keep most of my dex bonus. Plus dex affects my reflex score. This is an evasion paladin.

EDIT: Sorry was typing when you posted Dragonlord. What's wrong with my current stat spread? I feel 14 constitution is warranted because I want to have high enough HP to not be easily killed after I intimidate.

[KKDragonLord]

I'm not going to lower intelligence because I'm putting as many points as possible into intimidate and umd.

A Mithral Tower Shield will allow me to keep most of my dex bonus. Plus dex affects my reflex score. This is an evasion paladin.

You mean charisma. The higher stat points are hardly cost effective, a +1 to the skill isn't worth that much.

If you didnt see i suggested you to to go with either 12 dex or 14 dex for you to be able to get to 24-28 with +3exceptional dex, +7 dex item, +2 or +4 tome. Thats plenty enough.

Max dex of mithal Tower Shield is +6, of Mithral BP is +9.

The problem is that you are suffering from a lot of MAD (multiple stat dependancy) and skipping on STR is not good on a pally.

[xAlistairx]

You mean charisma. The higher stat points are hardly cost effective, a +1 to the skill isn't worth that much.

If you didnt see i suggested you to to go with either 12 dex or 14 dex for you to be able to get to 24-28 with +3exceptional dex, +7 dex item, +2 or +4 tome. Thats plenty enough.

Max dex of mithal Tower Shield is +6, of Mithral BP is +9.

No, I know intelligence doesn't affect those stats. But with my current intelligence I get 4 skill points per level which is enough for the two into intimidate and the two into umd.

Hmm interesting development. The way I have it set up with 16 dex at the end and a +6 dex item, I will end up with exactly +6. I guess I could lower it by 2 points at the start and just eat a +2 tomb for when that dex bonus will be fully realized. Would that be better?

[dragons1ayer74]

Also as a drow you get 2 points of dex racial adjustment if you want them, cha effects a pladin in many ways and on a paladin will help all of your saves, plus your UMD and your Intimidate. Also if you spread your rouge levels out and only spend the points on UMD and Intimidate you will find that you can get away with a lower int.

[xAlistairx]

Also as a drow you get 2 points of dex racial adjustment if you want them, cha effects a pladin in many ways and on a paladin will help all of your saves, plus your UMD and your Intimidate. Also if you spread your rouge levels out and only spend the points on UMD and Intimidate you will find that you can get away with a lower int.

I took the 2 points.

I took the rogue level earlier on so I could get evasion quicker. The longer I go without taking the second level of rogue, the longer I'm just a paladin one level behind the others doing the same quests as me.

[KKDragonLord]

I took the 2 points.

I took the rogue level earlier on so I could get evasion quicker. The longer I go without taking the second level of rogue, the longer I'm just a paladin one level behind the others doing the same quests as me.

IF you really want to be an AC build you have to think of endgame equipment, not just stay stucked in a simple +6 dex world. I'm hoping you are at least aware that you will need a Mineral II greensteel with Heightened awareness IV. Check this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249178 for maximized AC.

If you dont maximize your skill points you will not be optimized.

Dont worry about stuff lower than 10, you will spend a lot more time capped looking for AC equipment than you will waiting to level in rogue.

AC builds are not easy.

[xAlistairx]

IF you really want to be an AC build you have to think of endgame equipment, not just stay stucked in a simple +6 dex world. I'm hoping you are at least aware that you will need a Mineral II greensteel with Heightened awareness IV. Check this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249178 for maximized AC.

If you dont maximize your skill points you will not be optimized.

Dont worry about stuff lower than 10, you will spend a lot more time capped looking for AC equipment than you will waiting to level in rogue.

AC builds are not easy.

Okay, I'm not getting what you're telling me to do. Take rogue later? My skill points are maxed.

[KKDragonLord]

Okay, I'm not getting what you're telling me to do. Take rogue later? My skill points are maxed.

It goes like this.

1 point of rogue skill increases intimidate and Umd by 1
2 points of paladin increase them by 1
With 12 Int
You start as a rogue with the maxed rank of 4

You level 8 times as paladin spending 2 points per lvl on intimidate (maxing it at 12 ranks) and 1 per level on UMD (increasing it to 8)

IF you take the next level as a rogue you will spend 1 point in Intimidate (Maxing it at 13 ranks) and 5 points in UMD (maxing it at 13) and you will have a surplus of 3 points you can't spend.

So instead you level 6 more times as a paladin bringing Intimidate to 18 ranks and UMD to 11 ranks.

Then you level as a rogue to 2rogue/14Pally, and this makes you able to spend 1 in intimidate and 8 in UMD, bringing Both to the Max of 19 ranks.

This way you dont waste skill points.

After that you would still be getting just 3 skill points though, and thats where a +2 tome comes in, making you have 4 points to spend as a Paladin.

If you get a +2 Int tome to eat at level 7 you can even level as a rogue at the next level and spend your surplus of 5 Rogue skill points in Balance, because from level onwards you will be maxing UMD and Intimidate every level as a paladin.

And if you got a +3 tome in the bank you can start with 11 Int and postpone your rogue level until after you ate that one.
.

[xAlistairx]

It goes like this.

1 point of rogue skill increases intimidate and Umd by 1
2 points of paladin increase them by 1
With 12 Int
You start as a rogue with the maxed rank of 4

You level 8 times as paladin spending 2 points per lvl on intimidate (maxing it at 12 ranks) and 1 per level on UMD (increasing it to 8)

IF you take the next level as a rogue you will spend 1 point in Intimidate (Maxing it at 13 ranks) and 5 points in UMD (maxing it at 13) and you will have a surplus of 3 points you can't spend.

So instead you level 6 more times as a paladin bringing Intimidate to 18 ranks and UMD to 11 ranks.

Then you level as a rogue to 2rogue/14Pally, and this makes you able to spend 1 in intimidate and 8 in UMD, bringing Both to the Max of 19 ranks.

This way you dont waste skill points.

After that you would still be getting just 3 skill points though, and thats where a +2 tome comes in, making you have 4 points to spend as a Paladin.

If you get a +2 Int tome to eat at level 7 you can even level as a rogue at the next level and spend your surplus of 5 Rogue skill points in Balance, because from level onwards you will be maxing UMD and Intimidate every level as a paladin.

And if you got a +3 tome in the bank you can start with 11 Int and postpone your rogue level until after you ate that one.
.

What would that change from my current build? Allowing me to put those two points elsewhere?

[dragons1ayer74]

You can save a lot of points by skipping the last tier of Divine might.
...
how about:

Str 17
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 11
Wis 8
Cha 16

I think this would be fairly nice starting stats it would allow for a +1 tome for Int early for the 4 skill points per level and someday getting the +2 Int to allow for Combat Expertise, the only thing I don't like about it is a 12 for CON which I guess end game still allows for 499 hit points (with gear and 1 toughness) on a character with good self healing capabilities and decent AC and evasion, it should be more than ok.

If the person was confident about long term playing (the requirement for some day knowing they will have +3 tomes) and really building with end game in mind they could start similar stats but start with one point less strength. The 3 extra build points could go numerous places - 15 Dex for ability to spec to dual wield if desired or Cha 17 ability to some day get end tier of divine might plus one more build point left over for Dex, Con or Int.


Also even if you go rouge one for the huge number of extra other skill points rouge 2 would not come until at very earliest level 8. (Rouge 1, Paladin 6 - next level Rouge)