28pt Dwarf S&B - Tankasaurus Rex

[Killocalypse]

I'm killing this thread because it has gotten so far from my OP I don't even want to be the start of it. Thanks to the three of you that were helpful.

[Consumer]

Although I dont know much about build a s&b user, I do know you should always have a DPS option as situations that actually require a tank are rare.

As I suggested for your last build drop power critical as it has almost no effect, replacing cleave, great cleave and power critical with the THF chain would give you your DPS option.

Putting your level ups into strength instead of constitution would also be a good idea.

You will also want to pick up the stalwart defender prestige line which will mean shuffling around some enhancements.


I'll leave the rest to more knowledgeable users.

[Nysrock]

I made one similar that is now level 8. I would suggest rearranging your enhancements so you can pick up Stalwart Defender. If you are going to be carrying a shield anyways then you may as well get DR/6 and increased AC.

[Brennie]

If you want to build around glancing blows, then you really ought to fit in THF, ITHF and GTHF as they will dramatically increase the glancing blow damage, and the chance for glancing blows to proc weapon effects.

[Meetch1972]

If you want to build around glancing blows, then you really ought to fit in THF, ITHF and GTHF as they will dramatically increase the glancing blow damage, and the chance for glancing blows to proc weapon effects.

I think the OP is after dwarven axe/bastard sword glancing blows (those are the ones, ya?) that will be brought in with U5, as opposed to THF. Running a dwarf naturally leads to the axe - the only thing working against it is the crit range, but allowing for glancing blows does make it a little more attractive to consider making the only sharp weapon he wields. Now, is there anything that can help enhance glancing blows for those 1H weapons?

I would be interested in this sort of build for if I TR my dwarf Pally, who is carrying around 40ish weapons, most of them the axe variety, so I'm interested in the feedback too...

The only thing I really don't like about that build, is that while looking like a solid defending/good DPS tank, there's no real intimidate skill and thus no reliable means of making the most of turtle mode. Can a 34 point (TR) build make up for that well enough to intimitank Suulo? And then, is it worth it?

[GhoulsTouch]

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Categ...r_Enhancements
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...art_Defender_I
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...rt_Defender_II
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...t_Defender_III

Though you can still S&B and go Kensai with your Dwarven Axe...no law against it. In fact that may make you a very bad dude...

I would drop power attack, you don't want to lose out on your to hit bonus as your attacks will be much slower then those taking the THF and TWF chains. Moreso because you made Con your high stat instead of strength, nothing wrong with that just you don't want to give up more of your AB then you have already.

I think power critical is better for you in my opinion. Alot of people just parrot what another person said when that person said power critical is worthless. If you think about all the bonuses you and most others pumped into critical accuracy you may as well go the full stretch to maximize how many criticals you pull off.

But to make the most of it you need improved critical slashing first. Also to be honest you really don't need quickdraw.

[Bacab]

Please keep power attack.

Drop one of the million toughness feats.

Rather than point out everything wrong with your propsed build...try this

Look up "Cannon Fodder" by Mr Wizard. You can replace certain things for being a dwarf. Your toon is 100% not end-game viable. Your AC will be absolute garbage. You lack Stalwart Defender PRe...therefore your DR- is bad also.

I am not trying to put you or your build down. Just please look up "Cannon Fodder". You will thank me later.

ALSO, another thing to consider is look up "Junt's guide to Paladins". That may make you change your mind a bit.

Oh and power critical is a silly feat. 100% useless. At endgame everyone that is not a Wizard or Sorc is hitting on "2's". You will ALWAYS confirm a crit. Only take Fighter Crit accuraacy IF you are going Kensai, and then take the minimum that it makes you take.

[GhoulsTouch]

Hitting on two and critting are two different things, and arent they supposed to be boosting AC on mobs in epic?

[unbongwah]

If you're seriously trying to make a tank, you'll want Combat Expertise, which takes INT 13; I would suggest starting with INT 12 and taking a +1 INT tome. You should probably also have max ranks in Intimidate and maybe pick up an Intim-boosting feat or two.

It may be counter-intuitive on a S&B tank, but also consider higher DEX: partly so you can take Dodge if you can work it in; but mostly to give you a couple extra points of AC. I've never tried making a tank before, but it sounds like you really need to try to work in every point of AC you can. So base stats of, say, 16 / 12 / 18 / 12 / 8 / 6.

If you really want to take advantage of glancing blows from DAxes post-U5, you should work in the THF feats, because the release notes state, "Feats or enhancements that affect Glancing Blows (such as the Two Handed Fighting chain, or Great Weapon Aptitude) will also modify these weapons."

[Astarinthemage]

Hitting on two and critting are two different things, and arent they supposed to be boosting AC on mobs in epic?

But hitting on a 2 and confirming a crit on a 2 are the same thing. Which makes Power Critical and Fighter Critical Accuracy 1-4 a waste.

Also, the THF line should work with DA and bastard swords, so you may want to take that in place of 3 of your toughness feats.

Bastard Swords and Dwarven Waraxes are now as if they were two handed weapons for the purposes of Glancing Blows when they are the only weapon wielded by a proficient user. (Weapon and Shield or Single Weapon styles, but not when Dual Wielding.) Feats or enhancements that affect Glancing Blows (such as the Two Handed Fighting chain, or Great Weapon Aptitude) will also modify these weapons. They are still treated as one handed weapons for all other purposes, such as strength bonus to damage.

Threw this together while I was waiting for the servers to come back up. There's probably a couple things I missed.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 416
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 10
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            12                    13
Constitution         18                    20
Intelligence         12                    13
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    16
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         4                     5
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     2
Heal                  1                     1
Hide                  1                     1
Intimidate            2                    32
Jump                  7                    10
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         1                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                5                     5
Search                5                     7
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                5                     5
Use Magic Device      2                    21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Fighter)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge


Level 8 (Fighter)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

[Crann]

I think the OP is after dwarven axe/bastard sword glancing blows (those are the ones, ya?) that will be brought in with U5, as opposed to THF.

It is my understanding that the THF feats are what increase the proc rate of the glancing blows for the S&B D-Axe and Bastard Sword. This gives you the option of having a higher AC, but still being able to put out DPS in the middle of a group of mobs.

[Aerendil]

I like Astarin's stat and feats setup much better than the original one posted, although going pure 20 Fighter may be the optimal choice (the capstone is nice).

If you want to tank, you want:
- Combat Expertise (as mentioned above, you need 13 INT for this, so a starting stat of 12 with a +1 tome, or 11 +2 tome will suffice).
- reasonable Dexterity. Especially as a Dwarf, you can get a LOT of AC out of plate armour. Take Dragontouched, for example. 15 AC, +1 max dex. With dwarven and fighter armour mastery enhancements, you can up this to 15 AC with +7 max dex boost. With Stalwart Defender, this gets upped a further +2 to a possible +9 (28 dex required to max this) So with the right dexterity and tomes/equipment, you *could* get up to 24 AC out of dragontouched plate alone. It would be a shame to only have an endgame dex of 18ish and lose out on up to 5 AC here.
As a result, you're going to want a starting dex of 14-16 to get a reasonable amount of dex out of your armour.
- keep Power Attack for those times when you're not tanking. If someone else has aggro, then you're not taking damage. If you're not taking damage, there's no reason you can't pull out that giant greataxe and go to town with power attack.
Versatility is the key element of any good Fighter, so know when to switch from S&B to 2H.

[GhoulsTouch]

But hitting on a 2 and confirming a crit on a 2 are the same thing.

You are not going to confirm a crit after rolling a natural 19 for it on a 2 even with power critical. Without it your chances are even slimmer.
If you had improved crit slashing you have to roll two natural 19's using dwarven axes to roll a critical without any other enhancements or feats for critical accuracy even if you hit on a two.

[sigtrent]

You are not going to confirm a crit after rolling a natural 19 for it on a 2 even with power critical. Without it your chances are even slimmer.

You don't seem to understand how it works.

A. You roll a natural value inside your weapons crit range. This means you rolled a critical "threat"
B. You make a second attack roll, if this roll hits the targets AC, you confirm the critical hit.

That means if you hit on a 2, you confirm crits on a 2. The only reason to take power critical is if you have trouble hitting monsters normally. This is generally not a problem most good fighters have. It is a bad feat because either you need it and your character is a poor melee combatant anyway, or you are a good fighter and you don't get any value from it.

If you had improved crit slashing you have to roll two natural 19's using dwarven axes to roll a critical without any other enhancements or feats for critical accuracy even if you hit on a two.

That is not how it works.

[LordArkan]

I'm confused as to how critical hits work.

That's ok, for I am here to explain!
See, your weapon has what is called a critical threat range. If you roll in this range on the d20 with your attack roll, you have rolled what is called a critical threat. You then make a confirmation roll by rolling another attack roll with the same bonuses as the original roll. If this hits the target's AC, then you have confirmed a critical hit.

Edit: Curses! Ninja'd!

[sigtrent]

This post has 3 builds that use the mechanic the OP is trying to take advantage of.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243551

This is the one closest to his build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 426
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 10
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    22
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    19
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            5                    39
Jump                  6                    29
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                2                     5
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  2                    21
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      3                    13

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

[heavyg25]

If your dropping the AC all together than why even have S&B? You went from bad to worse.

[cm2_supernova]

Read before you post, statements like this just make you look dumb, and like an @$$, it's just not constructive at all so why bother posting it?

its a valid question though...the only reason for trying to S&B is to tank and have AC. If you are not going to have any AC why not just THF with a great axe and get more damage out of the build?

[heavyg25]

Read before you post, statements like this just make you look dumb, and like an @$$, it's just not constructive at all so why bother posting it?

Hypocrit much? It is a completely valid question and I don't know how much more constructive I can be. I hate to brake it to you but I couldn't possibly look as dumb as you do right now. Here is a hint, don't go post your build on a message board and then flip out when someone questions it.

[Nezichiend]

Sure, if you get agro you won't die with a healer on you...

But how are you going to get agro? No intim + lower dps than everyone else in the party = no agro.