Why Turbine WHY level 5 dungeons??????

[ArkoHighStar]

Paiz: There are some smaller things like additional dungeons that are also coming out. There’s a premium adventure pack that will be for level five characters that’s called “The Carnival of Shadows.” It’s a neat little adventure that features a bunch of Tieflings running around the carnival and has the players investigating what they’re up to. I think the players will get a kick out of it, and there’s a really nice capstone dungeon underneath the big top with a giant Succubus boss that they’ll need to kill.

It also supports epic level play, so level 20 characters can go in tinker with it (and still be challenged) as well.

I am asking an honest question, why are you spending so much time building content, for a portion of the game that is already overflowing with quests. Lvls 16-20 are just dying for new content, especially with the high xp required for TRing, but yet we get update after update with under level 10 quests?

Given that update 6 would be about August, we are looking at best a year without a raid.(that is if Update 6 has a raid)

Please Turbine enlighten me

[Kadran]

I'd like to see TRs able to get into Epic at level 19.

[Karranor]

I am asking an honest question, why are you spending so much time building content, for a portion of the game that is already overflowing with quests. Lvls 16-20 are just dying for new content, especially with the high xp required for TRing, but yet we get update after update with under level 10 quests?

Given that update 6 would be about August, we are looking at best a year without a raid.(that is if Update 6 has a raid)

Please Turbine enlighten me

Me too please. There is too much to do in this level range. You can't do it all without outleveling the content.

We need content where it is starving. We need more raids. A bunch more Epic dungeons does not help any high level content except those that are 20. This excludes a huge level range.

[Cyr]

Low level content requires less design time and can be marketed to new players easier. Think 'zombie pirates' and ten year old kids come to mind. Think 'carnival' and again I'm thinking this is about marketing to younger new players.

Oh and yes I agree with you the OP it is a dumb move for the long term health of the game. Want to keep players longer? Enhance the end game experience so people don't get there, get bored, and quit. Where are the raids? Turbine must have decided that new players meant super casual players who hate grouping, are rather young, who have lots of disposable income, and are bad players so they need easy quests.

[stormarcher]

I am asking an honest question, why are you spending so much time building content, for a portion of the game that is already overflowing with quests. Lvls 16-20 are just dying for new content, especially with the high xp required for TRing, but yet we get update after update with under level 10 quests?

Given that update 6 would be about August, we are looking at best a year without a raid.(that is if Update 6 has a raid)

Please Turbine enlighten me

/signed

I completely agree with this running the same things over and over again just get boring for me and now a days I almost Instantly TR once I hit 20.

[Stamp3de]

Any mention of whether or not there will be new items in these quests that can be made epic?

[Karranor]

I'd like to see TRs able to get into Epic at level 19.

I like this idea. As stated before though. Epic dungeons are NOT new content. It is recycled old content.

[ArkoHighStar]

Low level content requires less design time and can be marketed to new players easier. Think 'zombie pirates' and ten year old kids come to mind. Think 'carnival' and again I'm thinking this is about marketing to younger new players.

Oh and yes I agree with you the OP it is a dumb move for the long term health of the game. Want to keep players longer? Enhance the end game experience so people don't get there, get bored, and quit. Where are the raids? Turbine must have decided that new players meant super casual players who hate grouping, are rather young, who have lots of disposable income, and are bad players so they need easy quests.

I have nothing against lower level quests, but it seems to be the new pattern of doing low level quests with an epic option as an after thought to appease high level players, again nothing wrong with that but it just appears to be a disturbing trend, and I fear that is all we will see this year.

[Crazyfruit]

Are the low level packs selling much, much better than the high level ones in the ddo store?

Only reason I can think of. The bestselling lists was kinda enlightening to see which people bought more often, but I didn't see an option to compare them all besides low/mid/high level

[ArichValtrahn]

I am asking an honest question, why are you spending so much time building content, for a portion of the game that is already overflowing with quests. Lvls 16-20 are just dying for new content, especially with the high xp required for TRing, but yet we get update after update with under level 10 quests?

Given that update 6 would be about August, we are looking at best a year without a raid.(that is if Update 6 has a raid)

Please Turbine enlighten me

Brand new players are more interested in low level content. Turbine wants new players.

[Alexandryte]

Given the current state of the lag in endgame currently most nights...


.....do you really want a new raid that people don't know how to do and having to contend with lag on top of it?

Although, I do agree....a nice mixture of new low end and higher end content to run to level cap would be nice.

[Coldin]

If I were to make a guess, they probably anticipate more demand for new content at lower levels due to the new players. I think there's also fewer low level adventure packs to buy since the entire harbor is given away for free.

But, I would have liked to see these quests closer to the midlevels, say 9-12, something to take the load off of going to GH.

And really, a new high level quest chain would be great.

[ArkoHighStar]

Brand new players are more interested in low level content. Turbine wants new players.

the brand new players that stay eventually become vets or at least endgame players, a healthy mix of low and high level quests would be more profitable, than just low level content.

[Cyr]

I have nothing against lower level quests, but it seems to be the new pattern of doing low level quests with an epic option as an after thought to appease high level players, again nothing wrong with that but it just appears to be a disturbing trend, and I fear that is all we will see this year.

There is something wrong with that IMO and it seems that despite you saying there is not over and over again you think there is too. It's not that the low levels are bad it's that there is so much there already as you have stated in your OP. Yes, there is something bad about spending development time on something which should be a very low priority when another aspect of the game that requires more content is being ignored.

[ArkoHighStar]

There is something wrong with that IMO and it seems that despite you saying there is not over and over again you think there is too. It's not that the low levels are bad it's that there is so much there already as you have stated in your OP. Yes, there is something bad about spending development time on something which should be a very low priority when another aspect of the game that requires more content is being ignored.

let me clarify, I have no problem in the design of having low level quests have an epic option. I just don't feel that delivering low level quests over and over again with the epic option, truly delivering high level content.

I am in total agreement the focus should be to fill the 9-13 and 16-20 gaps, not level 5 gaps.

Epic is only usefull to lvl 20's not those trying to get to lvl 20.

[Grosbeak07]

The real reason? They sell better at those levels. You can buy the Vale pack and get from level 12-20 without ever visiting Gianthold, the Desert, Necro 4, the inspired quarter or Amrath. Higher level packs don't sell as well because they are not needed as much.

Plus casual players can easily get up to levels 4, 5 or 6 after one weekend of playing. They will be attracted to play the new stuff (because all the vets despite their grumbling, will play through them... at least once) and will pay for it. $$ for Wburbine.

Its also more of a fact that there are more players at those levels, so make content for the masses. The higher levels are often pretty slim until you hit the glut at level 20, which is why the quests have Epic difficulty. If you don't like the epic grind, turbine thinks that's too bad. TR your character then. Either way they win and get your $$$ or you quit. Only time will tell who was right.

[Cyr]

If I were to make a guess, they probably anticipate more demand for new content at lower levels due to the new players. I think there's also fewer low level adventure packs to buy since the entire harbor is given away for free.

Not a premium player huh?

Catacombs, Necro 1, 3B Cove, Sentinals, Delera's, Tangle Root, Co6, Necro 2, STK, Sharn Syndicate, and Threnal's are all adventure packs. I might have missed something as that was a spur of the moment list. That is 11 adventure packs.

Levels 16-20 are probably considered the high levels by most. Vale, Amarath, Reaver's Refuge, IQ, and DD. With the last two largely being considered fluff to match catacombs and sentinals essentially. So 5 packs there.

Time spent at levels 1-10 compared to 16-20 is also fairly lopsided towards the higher levels.

I guess you be the judge. How many low level packs that a first toon will outlevel before even being able to play do they need to make?

[Kza]

Agree 100%, we need more quests and raids for 16-20 players that is nonepic = xp for chars.

[stormarcher]

In my opinion Turbine is doing the wrong thing.

Think about it:

1) most lower level "new" players are f2p and would rather experience the game to see if they like it before they buy it. (this is how I was and I assume many others were)

2) As you guys have said making a low level quest epic is alright and all but it is not as good as a new high level quest series/raid.

3) Most players past level 15 are either VIP or have bought a few packs and are the players who enjoy the game the most and spend the most money on this game. Ex: VIP, packs, guest passes for friends/guildies.

So Turbine if you are out there give the people who pay you the things they want

[Angelus_dead]

I am asking an honest question, why are you spending so much time building content

I am pretty sure that the reason Turbine's actions look mysterious to you is that they're going by data you don't have: the questing and purchasing patterns of new users who probably quit before level 10. You know all those e-store items that look like scams for the ignorant? They are the people who buy them. One could say that they're aiming to get churn of temporary players who drop $20 on TP and then fade out, while taking it for granted that if veteran players haven't quit yet they'll probably tolerate a lack of content for a while longer (with the probable addition of overestimating how well Epic mode works to satisfy that need)

I think Turbine is making a mistake in this regard, but it's hard to argue against their choice when we simply don't have the facts they consider important. (However, I'll go make a brief new thread to try and point out what the real problem is).

I'd like to see TRs able to get into Epic at level 19.

What would really be better is epic becomes a separate checkbox from Normal/Hard/Elite, with Epic Normal balanced to be equivalent to a level 21 dungeon on Normal, and characters are allowed in based on their relative level just as with any generic quest.

Epic is only usefull to lvl 20's not those trying to get to lvl 20.

And without getting into l2p accusations, it should be noted that epic quests are not really enjoyable for a large amount of level 20 characters.