U5 - Ranged Cleric?

[PyrosianFelicity]

Hey everyone,
So I'm pretty new, which is why I'm posting here first, to see if the idea has any merit. I played NWN 1 and 2 before, where the idea worked fine, but I'm not sure how it will transfer to DDO.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=248658
Word on the street is that Zen Archery is going to be a feat in Update 5.

That lets characters use their Wisdom bonus instead of Dexterity bonus to determine their attack-bonus with bows.
Clerics with bows may be in the near future, mayhaps?

I've never made a DDO cleric, or a DDO archer, so I don't know what the standard cookie-cutter ones are, but if I were to theorize about a build, it might be something like...

-15 Dex, to get Manyshot with a +2 Tome
-Maybe mid 20's Strength, to get a little extra damage with Bow Strength
-As much Wisdom as possible

How would that be, as a build? It'd have full Cleric casting and DC's, plus a good to-hit.
I know it was a good way to make a character in previous D&D games, but then you have stuff like Divine Might for clerics as a damage-booster.
Would it translate well to DDO?

If not, what are some other potential uses for Zen Archery? Rangers? Monks?

[hydra_ex]

Ranged combat isn't very good in DDO. Using it as a primary mode of combat (unless you're an arcane archer who wishes to have fun) is useless. However, using it on a cleric as a role of dealing secondary damage has its merits. However, those merits don't really translate well into practise. In many situations, a cleric should spend most of his attention healing, and, if not, should be fighting and tossing the occasional mass heal. Its hard to fight, self heal, and heal melees at the same time, so its best for a fighting cleric to consolidate himself into the melee group.
During soloing, blade barrier, not archery, is the fastest way to kill things without taking damage. However, killing casters with bows might have a certain merit, but then why wouldn't you play a FvS with the searing light capstone?

I think that Zen Archery might spawn some specialty arcane archers with a ton of sp able to play secondary healer, or show some synergy with the Silver Flame longbow specialty in favoured souls.

[Visty]

it will basicly like an arcane archer just without the imbues which make the AA powerfull
you still have full casting ability but the attack and reload animation of bows is so long that fast casting isnt possible

doubt it will be that uber but might a fun character

[Ystradmynach]

Ranged favored soul would be stronger, since they get enhancements to improve their bow use.

Whether you go Favored soul or cleric though, you would want to be an elf, and take arcane archer. Which means you need to take point blank shot and weapon focus. You also need rapid shot for many shot. So with toughness, zen archery and bow strength, you could just make a decent cleric or favored soul archer using all your feats.

Sounds sort of interesting, tell me how it goes.

[Verengor]

As people already mentioned range combat does really little damage in DDO compared to melee.

In ddo only the ranger class can add their strength bonus to the damage with a bow. If you don't want to multiclass with a ranger you will have to get the bow strength feat (it requires some feats you normally would not take on such a build).

To play the build you wanted (pure cleric) you would need the following seven feats only for fighting with a bow:

Zen Archery
Point Blank Shot (required for bow strength and Manyshot)
Manyshot
Weapon focus: Ranged (required for bow strength)
Power Attack or combat expertise (required for bow strength)
Bow strength
Rapit Shot (required for manyshot & Increases your attack speed)

If you do not play a human you don't get another feat to spend. That'll surely gimp your casting/healing abilitys because you miss the feats.

[Calebro]

Rule #1: You aggro it, you kill it.
Hopefully your blue bar isn't gone by the time it dies.

[Ystradmynach]

Power Attack or combat expertise (required for bow strength)

If you do not play a human you don't get another feat to spend. That'll surely gimp your casting/healing abilitys because you miss the feats.

Zen archery is an optional prerequisite for bow strength, so he doesn't need either power attack or combat expertise.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Bow_Strength

And if he doesn't play an elf and get the racial arcane archer PRE, he will be gimping his ranged combat abilities. I think it is already assumed that his healing abilities will be sub-par compared to a more focused healer, he will still have heal spells and mass heals and be able to help keep the party up though.

[Calebro]

I think it already assumed that his healing abilities will be sub-par compared to any other healer in Stormreach, he will still have heal spells and mass heals and be able to help keep the party up though.

Fixed it for ya.
Even Battle Clerics, who get absolutely zero love from a large portion of the players, will b MUCH better healers than this guy, simply because they can fit a metamagic feat or three in there.

[Angelus_dead]

If not, what are some other potential uses for Zen Archery? Rangers? Monks?

Zen Archery is pretty much a trap to lure players into making bad characters. In the event that ranged combat is someday fixed that could change.

[voodoogroves]

Someone did have a kiting-FVS posted a week or so ago; mostly a TO build this would help that by reducing MAD some.

Bow to get aggro, then kite through BB. Rinse, repeat.

[tomfar72]

The problem with Zen Archery (other than the fact that ranged is considered suboptimal dps-wise) is that alot of the feats that boost ranged dps have dex minimums to qualify for. Unless you are a ranger, you are still going to need a 13 dex for rapid shot, a 17 Dex for Manyshot etc. As Zen Archery does not let you use your Wis score to qualify for these feats, you are still going to have to invest in Dex, which in most cases is going to be counter productive to the purpose of Zen Archery.

[Kriogen]

Zen Archery is for Repeater? No need of Bow Str, Multishot doesn't work with reapater, so less need for Dex, ect ... Divine Favor does work with XBows. I guess OP wants some sort of machinegun nune

[Nezichiend]

The thing you don't understand.

It is not wisdom to DAMAGE.

It is wisdom to HIT.

[Makarion]

The problem with Zen Archery (other than the fact that ranged is considered suboptimal dps-wise) is that alot of the feats that boost ranged dps have dex minimums to qualify for. Unless you are a ranger, you are still going to need a 13 dex for rapid shot, a 17 Dex for Manyshot etc. As Zen Archery does not let you use your Wis score to qualify for these feats, you are still going to have to invest in Dex, which in most cases is going to be counter productive to the purpose of Zen Archery.

I'm thinking the feat will be likely most useful for "exploiter" type characters - monk 1+ / ranger 11+ and the rest to taste. Take moderate dex, for the AC and reflex saves, but don't spend more on it that you have left over. Put your build points into Strength and Wisdom, plus Constitution of course.

All the same, it has more than a sniff of being a flavour feat. I'm all in favour of those, but the power gamers will avoid them.

[Visty]

Zen Archery is for Repeater? No need of Bow Str, Multishot doesn't work with reapater, so less need for Dex, ect ... Divine Favor does work with XBows. I guess OP wants some sort of machinegun nune

you mean like the machine gun nun?
could work with a cleric or paladin for divine might and either full casting or weapons of good and zeal

[FluffyCalico]

Hey everyone,
So I'm pretty new, which is why I'm posting here first, to see if the idea has any merit. I played NWN 1 and 2 before, where the idea worked fine, but I'm not sure how it will transfer to DDO.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=248658
Word on the street is that Zen Archery is going to be a feat in Update 5.

1) Most of DDO hates any ranged character.
2) Almost as much hates any cleric that holds a weapon ment for physical damage.

If you combine 1+2 you either need to be in a guild that accepts your build or plan to solo as you will find the average group very unaccepting of it.

[GhoulsTouch]

I was thinking about this before you posted. Maybe 1 ftr/2rngr/17 cleric elven arcane archer. Helps cut down on feats.

[kelemvelor]

Well, people choose archer route for personal flavor anyway.

Zen archery opens up for an elven arcane archer caster type cleric but the feats for the character are kinda tight. Lets have a look at the feats needed

Must Haves
1) Zen Archery
2) Point Blank Shot (Prereq)
3) Weapon Focus (Prereq)
4) Mental Toughness (prereq or can miss if splash to other toons)

Good to have
1) Manyshot (the main DPS for a archer)
2) Rapid Shot
3) Bow strength
4) Improved Precise Shot (Precise Shot as prereq)
5) Empower
6) Maximize
7) Toughness

Gonna be tight fitting it in the traditional 18 Cleric / 2 X

p.s: here is an additional thought. All range characters are recommended to take either Manyshot (single DPS) and/or Improved Precise Shot (pseudo-AoE). So those going range has to at least have a base of 17 Dex. Kinda counter-intuitive if your going Zen Archery.

[Calebro]

Well, people choose archer route for personal flavor anyway.

Zen archery opens up for an elven arcane archer caster type cleric but the feats for the character are kinda tight. Lets have a look at the feats needed

Do you want to actually be USEFUL with that bow while still being a good healer?
You have to change that list:

Must Haves
1) Zen Archery
2) Point Blank Shot (Prereq)
3) Weapon Focus (Prereq)
4) Mental Toughness (prereq or can miss if splash to other toons)
5) Manyshot (the main DPS for a archer)
6) Rapid Shot
7) Bow strength
8) Empower
9) Maximize

Good to have
7) Toughness
4) Improved Precise Shot (Precise Shot as prereq)

Anything less and you'll be aq gimp healer AND a gimp archer.
Period.

[kelemvelor]

*shrug*

Pretty much what I would have chosen as an arcane archer cleric if i would build one. The prior selection was basically listing the mandatory feats required under must haves.

Looking through, it might be possible for a 18 cleric / 2 ranger build. The crux is probably in the stat point distribution. You basically need a +3 dex tome to meet Manyshot requirements and still maintain a decent constitution. Best I could gimmick up is a 32 point; 10 / 14 / 14 / 8 / 18 / 8.