Best Ranged build?!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Elf Rogue18/Rgr1/caster1 Assassin III/AA?! Hmmm.....



Edit: maybe Brd 1 with a max perfom skill?

[sigtrent]

Doesn't tell us much... why do you think it would be best?

I'd think it would be hard to beat full ranger due to the end-cap ability (are there stacking limitations on it?). Sneak attack on a ranged build rarely works out well due to the really short distance where it applies.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Doesn't tell us much... why do you think it would be best?

I'd think it would be hard to beat full ranger due to the end-cap ability (are there stacking limitations on it?). Sneak attack on a ranged build rarely works out well due to the really short distance where it applies.

Assasin III vorpal effect works with ranged weapons. Add slayer arrows.
SA is just nice to have. SA does do a large amount of damage. But the Assassin III is what I'm going for.

[MrCow]

Assasin III vorpal effect works with ranged weapons. Add slayer arrows.
SA is just nice to have. SA does do a large amount of damage. But the Assassin III is what I'm going for.

Just remember, the Assassin III vorpal works only on a sneak attack (which means you have to be within 30 feet of the critter on a ranged weapon).

[Seikojin]

I think the OP is hoping to range assinate. Or if they were human, multishot range assassinate through targets with precise shot, which can be built.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I guess Assassin III only works at close range too...so maybe it won't be as effective as I first thought.

However, I routinelly see SA damage on a bow. But certainly not all the time.
You have to be close....which isn't the ideal way to use a bow. And you have to not have agro. Which is easy to do, but is not usually the situations I want to use a bow up close for. (monster running away from me after I hurt him, monster doing excessive damage to me so begin circle kiting as a defensive move.)

[Seikojin]

Alot of combat can be done in 30 and still keep you safe. So it is possible, even without slaying arrows. If you were assassinate 3, and slaying arrows, thats two saves versus death.

[Deathseeker]

I'm confused (which is not unusual for me)...

Doesnt the assasinate III vorpal happen on a natural 20? Don't the slayer arrows hit on a natural 20? Thus, it seems there isn't a lot of synergy here. Sure, 20's are great, but is the incremental lift from slayer on a 20 to vorpal on a 20 really worth going all the way to Rogue 18?

Seems like Kensai III or the Ranger capstone give more incremental benefit in parallel with slayer than does assassinate III which appears to somewhat overlap it?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Just remember, the Assassin III vorpal works only on a sneak attack (which means you have to be within 30 feet of the critter on a ranged weapon).

Yeah...kinda forgot that. Definately limits it.

I think the OP is hoping to range assinate. Or if they were human, multishot range assassinate through targets with precise shot, which can be built.

Yes.
But hoping to get AA so needs to be an Elf. Might be too many feats. Originally thought of Rgr2. But need a spell casting class in there too..

Might be too many feats needed. Maybe Ftr 1 and forget Bow Str?


Well....wouldn't really come together tiil lvl 20. And that's a long time to invest in an experiment.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I'm confused (which is not unusual for me)...

Doesnt the assasinate III vorpal happen on a natural 20? Don't the slayer arrows hit on a natural 20? Thus, it seems there isn't a lot of synergy here. Sure, 20's are great, but is the incremental lift from slayer on a 20 to vorpal on a 20 really worth going all the way to Rogue 18?

Seems like Kensai III or the Ranger capstone give more incremental benefit in parallel with slayer than does assassinate III which appears to somewhat overlap it?

That too...

I guess it's not such a great idea after all.

[Seikojin]

I guess Assassin III only works at close range too...so maybe it won't be as effective as I first thought.

However, I routinelly see SA damage on a bow. But certainly not all the time.
You have to be close....which isn't the ideal way to use a bow. And you have to not have agro. Which is easy to do, but is not usually the situations I want to use a bow up close for. (monster running away from me after I hurt him, monster doing excessive damage to me so begin circle kiting as a defensive move.)

When doing closed range combat, circle kiting is not defensive to me, lol! I think it is extremely effective in keeping the mobs in control. And if you kite properly, you can line up alot of mobs in 30 and do small loops where you target the last guy in the line to maximize the use of improved precision. Mix that with manyshot and your assassinate 3, and you can force alot of mobs to make saves vs death.

Also, your sneaks would work with paralized mobs right? So if your bow is para, you can lock them all down in a line and kill them with ranged dps.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Alot of combat can be done in 30 and still keep you safe. So it is possible, even without slaying arrows. If you were assassinate 3, and slaying arrows, thats two saves versus death.

I do think that a Rogue with Improved Precise Shot could do some amazing damage with a ranged weapon, with little effort. Just make sure someone else gets agro. then come in close and shoot through the whole crowd.

[Seikojin]

Yeah...kinda forgot that. Definately limits it.

Yes.
But hoping to get AA so needs to be an Elf. Might be too many feats. Originally thought of Rgr2. But need a spell casting class in there too..

Might be too many feats needed. Maybe Ftr 1 and forget Bow Str?


Well....wouldn't really come together tiil lvl 20. And that's a long time to invest in an experiment.

I don't think youd be able to do AA and Assassin at the same time.

AA with slaying arrows would probably be the better route.

But a rogue decked out to do manyshot and improved precise shot is a decent dps range because of sneak attacks. They wouldn't happen much though. LOL I am sure d8+8d6+bow stuff+damage buffs would make you aggroo quickly, even with sutble backstab maxed out.

[Seikojin]

I do think that a Rogue with Improved Precise Shot could do some amazing damage with a ranged weapon, with little effort. Just make sure someone else gets agro. then come in close and shoot through the whole crowd.

Definitely would need an intimi tank or hireling to intimi.

[Deathseeker]

How about this one instead...I've been playing around with the concept...

Zealot Archer = 15 Pally / 3 Rogue / 2 Ranger

The pally gives you +5 dmg / +5 to hit from divine favor, and +6 damage from divine might, and 2d6+3 sneak attack. And the big kicker...+10% speed bonus from Zeal! Add in 5 rogue haste boosts for burst dps, favored enemy undead and hunter of the undead, and I think this looks to compare very well with Ranger 20 and Ftr 18 / X / X. Less burst dps than the fighter, but has a lot of survivability stuff (resists, lay on hands, etc). And I think it has more burst dps than a Ranger 20 (though less sustained dps against the ranger's favored enemies).

Note I've ignored smites and the divine attack that does light damage (forget the name) because they don't work on ranged.

Any thoughts to save me from making a big long post on this only to be embarrassed by something obvious Im missing.

Thoughts?

[Xeraphim]

I think I'll skip all the messy multiclassing and enhancements and such and just use an Elven Arcane Archer and give it the racial bow damage and attack lines, popping the Capstone on it for even better firing speed.

STR stays maxed at all levels, DEX is the secondary focus for Gear purposes, and you stay ranged through pretty much its entire career.

Simple, hard to screw up, easy to recognize, and that's how I like it.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

When doing closed range combat, circle kiting is not defensive to me, lol! I think it is extremely effective in keeping the mobs in control. And if you kite properly, you can line up alot of mobs in 30 and do small loops where you target the last guy in the line to maximize the use of improved precision. Mix that with manyshot and your assassinate 3, and you can force alot of mobs to make saves vs death.

Also, your sneaks would work with paralized mobs right? So if your bow is para, you can lock them all down in a line and kill them with ranged dps.

I don't think SA works with paralyzers.

I hate to kite. Others hate it more. What I do when I am overmatched...like say I have agro from one guy who is kicking my butt... I will jump back, pull out my bow and kite in circles...jumping all the time. runnong him back and forth through the party in the hopes that someone else will eventually pull him off of me or eventually that I will kill him myself without getting hit from him again.

It's just an alternative to normal kiting that keeps him closer to the rest of the party.

I also use circle kiting against some casters....mostly lower lvl ones... to avoid those overpowered scorching rays in Irestone for instance.

Anyway, the defensive part is trying to not be hit by him.

I also use Manyshot at times even at close range, because for most of my Rgrs it does the most burst DPS. Manyshot tends to draw agro quickly. Cicle kitiing is a more party friendly optiuon for dealing with that agro.

I don't actually have a high lvl AA yet. To test Slaying arrows myself.
Nor do I have an Assassin III yet.
So the mechanics of it all is not really something I'm familiar enough with to be sure of how to use them.


Oh well. Seemed a good idea when I thought of it.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

How about this one instead...I've been playing around with the concept...

Zealot Archer = 15 Pally / 3 Rogue / 2 Ranger

The pally gives you +5 dmg / +5 to hit from divine favor, and +6 damage from divine might, and 2d6+3 sneak attack. And the big kicker...+10% speed bonus from Zeal! Add in 5 rogue haste boosts for burst dps, favored enemy undead and hunter of the undead, and I think this looks to compare very well with Ranger 20 and Ftr 18 / X / X. Less burst dps than the fighter, but has a lot of survivability stuff (resists, lay on hands, etc). And I think it has more burst dps than a Ranger 20 (though less sustained dps against the ranger's favored enemies).

Note I've ignored smites and the divine attack that does light damage (forget the name) because they don't work on ranged.

Any thoughts to save me from making a big long post on this only to be embarrassed by something obvious Im missing.

Thoughts?

Seems interesting at first glance. The SA damage is ok, but not alot. Can be upped with BS items like Tharnes Goggles. Will only come into play maybe half the time. But still nice.

[rimble]

How about this one instead...I've been playing around with the concept...

Zealot Archer = 15 Pally / 3 Rogue / 2 Ranger

The pally gives you +5 dmg / +5 to hit from divine favor

Caps at +3/+3.

, and +6 damage from divine might

I'd have to see the full stat layout proposed since this requires a Cha investment that most archers probably don't make. I also find Divine Might terribly annoying to keep up.

and 2d6+3 sneak attack.

Yeah, not bad at close range.

And the big kicker...+10% speed bonus from Zeal!

I'd clarify all the stacking involved here. I'd have to go and read up some, I'm not sure off the top of my head. Would it stack with Black Dragonscale robe or the Abbot quiver? Too bad there's no Longbow ingredient for Holy Sword (is there?!).

Add in 5 rogue haste boosts for burst dps

Useful, but they're the little ones. The Fighter ones go to 40% I think...?

favored enemy undead

+3 Damage vs that one enemy, meh.

and hunter of the undead,

+0 Damage vs that one enemy, hehe.

and I think this looks to compare very well with Ranger 20 and Ftr 18 / X / X.

Eh, I think you should dig into the numbers more...I'm not feelin' it...

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Oh. What about Earth Grab and the frozen ice GS effects? Do they grant SA damage?
(autocrits?!!!)


Radiance Bow?!



(Radiance Great Crossbow????!)