20 Human Sorcerer Elemental Charm build

[DethTrip]

I want to build a sorcerer that charms, holds, and dominates the enemy as well as burns and freezes them to death. Of course insta kills are very welcome too.

I focused on SP gain and saving thus the reason I only went with Empower Spell and not Maximize. That way I could put action points into Improved Empower 1, 2 and 3 and bring the cost down to on 4 more spell points for 50% more damage. I feel with taking the enhancements to boost elemental damage, the damage output will be quite adequate. I took empower early so I could put action points into it right away instead of wasting action points on other stuff to meet the requirements.

I know I want finger, wall of fire, wail, dismissal, and the teleport type spells but feel free to debate the spell selection. What I would like to know is how to maximize my chances of landing these spells and any other advice you think a first time sorcerer would need. Thanks.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
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20 Sorcerer Hmn Elemental Charm
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 182
Spell Points: 2317 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 7
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    12
Dexterity            12                    12
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             18                    26

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1.5                  10.5
Bluff                 4                     8
Concentration         6                    27
Diplomacy             4                     8
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                4                     8
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  1                     1
Intimidate            4                     8
Jump                  2                     2.5
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         1                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  1                     1
Tumble                1.5                   2
Use Magic Device      6                    19

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Charm Person
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I


Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Concentration I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (1): Jump
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Mastery I


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Web
Enhancement: Sorcerer Concentration II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation II


Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Otto's Resistable Dance
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (3): Hold Person
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Knock
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation III


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (3): Suggestion
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements II


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (5): Dominate Person
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (3): Heroism
Spell (4): Bestow Curse
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded III


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Spell (6): Mass Suggestion
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements III


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Enervation
Spell (5): Teleport
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering III


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Finger of Death
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Heightening I


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (5): Dismissal
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone
Spell (7): Protection From Elements, Mass
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Heightening II


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Greater Teleport
Spell (8): Mass Charm Monster
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded IV


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration II


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Spell (8): Polar Ray


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (9): Summon Monster IX
Enhancement: Sorcerer Bloodline of Power
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration III

[ArloOne]

Make a wizard

[DethTrip]

Make a wizard

Ok, and why is that?

[ArloOne]

J/k...I would basically leave wis and int as dump stats. Crank Charisma to max...Bring up Con. Try to keep at least 12 in strength. As base stats that should do you fine.
You will have a plethora of spell points, no need to take energy of the scholar type feats for more SP.
If you throw a feat into Spell Focus: Necromancy (I think) your wail of the banshee will,well wail!
Personally, I maximize my elemental line for fire/ice. Thats just me.

You should have a very good success rate with mass charm monster. Allowing you to have an army at your side through most quests.
Forgive my lack of detail on organization, but I am at work and spedding through this.

Have fun!

[Goldeneye]

Sorcerer is fine. I prefer Sorcs.

Read my Velkro build in my sig.

Advice:
Change feats, you NEED MAXIMIZE - it makes a HUGE damage difference
Change base stats - STR/DEX/INT are next to useless, MAX CHA, rest into CON. or a few point in INT if you want another skill point.

(you don't need to waste any base points in STR - you can use items and tomes for increasing STR)

1 Sorcerer (Feat) Empower (Human Feat) Toughness
3 Sorcerer (Feat) Extend
6 Sorcerer (Feat) Maximize
9 Sorcerer (Feat) Heighten
12 Sorcerer (Feat) xx
15 Sorcerer (Feat) xx
18 Sorcerer (Feat) xx



Last 3 feats: choose from the following:

• Spell Focus: Necromancy
• Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
• Spell Focus: Enchantment
• Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
• Spell Penetration
• Improved Spell Penetration
• Mental Toughness
• Imp Mental Toughness

[Tyrande]

Couple of things: Why didn't you start with a drow? You can start with Charisma 20 instead of 18. I know you put human versatility in there, but you also did not pick Sorcerer Charisma III.

+3 Charisma tomes and Litany of the Dead might be easier to obtain than a +4 Charisma tome.

You also didn't pick Spell Focus: Enchantment and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment for maximum hold DC.

Are you assuming that you will have the items Staff of the Petitioner or DreamSpitter?

[DethTrip]

Couple of things: Why didn't you start with a drow? You can start with Charisma 20 instead of 18. I know you put human versatility in there, but you also did not pick Sorcerer Charisma III.

+3 Charisma tomes and Litany of the Dead might be easier to obtain than a +4 Charisma tome.

You also didn't pick Spell Focus: Enchantment and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment for maximum hold DC.

Are you assuming that you will have the items Staff of the Petitioner or DreamSpitter?

Acutally, I have read a lot but also have a lot to learn because this will be my first sorcerer. I have a lvl4 wizard so I know next to nothing about later in game good items. I am asking for advice on what I do need to put points into, feats to take, and such. Evidentally, spell focus enchantment would help me with charming. How much is a +1 going to be? Is it really a noticeable difference? Would it really be worth a feat?

[Goldeneye]

Your DC will be around 34-38 depending on gear.
While +1 from a feat looks like a small difference, monster's saves will also be in the same area... so every +1 makes a good difference.

Drow or Human are both good choices. I talk about the differences in my Velkro thread if you care.


To get your DC higher end game:
Max CHA - tomes, Sorc CHA III, items
Get the Dreamspitter for the reaver raid: +2 Enchantment Focus (DC)

[DethTrip]

Make a wizard

So would this be a better build? A lot more feats. I know I will get some backlash for asking this but is a wizard better than a sorcerer? I know a little from what I have read but I would like to know from someone who has actually played both. Thanks.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
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20 Wiz Human Elemental Charmer
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 1756 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 7
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity            12                    12
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence         18                    28
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    12
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         7                    28
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                    10
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                    12
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  2                    11
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         3                    12
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                4                     9
Search                4                     9
Spot                 -1                     7
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble                2                     2
Use Magic Device      1                    10

Level 1 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Charm Person
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Spell (1): Mage Armor
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Enhancement: Wizard Concentration I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (2): Web
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Otto's Resistable Dance
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Wizard Concentration II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Spell (3): Hold Person
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell (3): Protection From Energy
Spell (3): Heroism
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing II


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (4): Charm Monster
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation III


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Ice Storm
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (5): Teleport
Spell (5): Hold Monster
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness
Spell (5): Protection From Elements
Spell (5): Dominate Person
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation IV


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (6): Mass Suggestion
Spell (6): Greater Heroism


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone
Spell (6): Disintegrate
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Maximizing III


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Protection From Elements, Mass
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration III


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Finger of Death
Spell (7): Greater Teleport
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (8): Polar Ray
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements III


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Listen (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (8): Mass Charm Monster
Spell (8): Incendiary Cloud
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Listen (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (9): Summon Monster IX
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening I


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Listen (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Spell (9): Mass Hold Monster
Spell (9): Dominate Monster


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Listen (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Spell (9): Meteor Swarm
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening II


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Illusion
Spell (7): Waves of Exhaustion
Spell (7): Banishment
Enhancement: Wizard Master of Magic
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I

[Goldeneye]

That's a completely different debate.
I've played wizards, have plenty of friends who tell me about their wizards, but I prefer sorcerers.

• More base SP
• Double SP gained from items
• Faster Cast (no need for quicken)
• Shorter cool-downs
• higher CHA = +UMD / +Haggle....

Wizards would have a higher DC (Capstone, extra feats for spell focus), but just by a little. In exchange, they have to be more careful about using their mana. Plus, they can't match the nuke-age that a sorc has.