All hits=crits in Splinterskull

[TasteTester]

Saw something tonight while running Tangleroot that I hadn't seen before. I was grouped with 4 other players about the same level as my character ( level 7) for Splinterskull. There was a 6th player in the group who was level 16, but he didn't enter the quests, or even go to the Tangleroot wilderness zone (I think he was there so we could open elite, but I had always thought you needed to actually be there to do that).

When we started Splinterskull, we noticed fairly quickly that the level 4 (+2 for elite) mobs were *hammering* us. When we looked at the combat log, the mobs either were missing or critting. Always, either a miss or a crit. We made it through with 1 death, talked about the problem, but went back for the next 3 parts (prisoner rescue, getting the plans and maps and destroying Whisperdoom's eggs), and saw, and got slammed by, the same hit = crit behavior.

We had the the level 16 player drop before we went back in for the next part thinking that we were maybe seeing some anti-power leveling code, but even then all the hits were crits. We wiped on that part of the chain (when they're all crits it can go down hill fast ), and just gave up.

Now this was not a new quest chain to any of us (I'm fairly new but have done Splinterskull maybe a dozen times, several members were old timers on alts and one was a true reincarnate), so it's not like we weren't familiar with the chain or unprepared., but none of us had any clue what was causing the problem.

Question is, were we seeing anti-power leveling code, was the quest chain just bugged, or were the mobs just AMAZINGLY AND IMPOSSIBLY lucky in their dice rolls? If it was anti-power leveling code (not sure how the level 16 could have helped us since he wasn't even in the instance), why did it continue after he dropped? Would breaking and reforming have solved it? Any ideas?

[Loki]

Saw something tonight while running Tangleroot that I hadn't seen before. I was grouped with 4 other players about the same level as my character ( level 7) for Splinterskull. There was a 6th player in the group who was level 16, but he didn't enter the quests, or even go to the Tangleroot wilderness zone (I think he was there so we could open elite, but I had always thought you needed to actually be there to do that).

When we started Splinterskull, we noticed fairly quickly that the level 4 (+2 for elite) mobs were *hammering* us. When we looked at the combat log, the mobs either were missing or critting. Always, either a miss or a crit. We made it through with 1 death, talked about the problem, but went back for the next 3 parts (prisoner rescue, getting the plans and maps and destroying Whisperdoom's eggs), and saw, and got slammed by, the same hit = crit behavior.

We had the the level 16 player drop before we went back in for the next part thinking that we were maybe seeing some anti-power leveling code, but even then all the hits were crits. We wiped on that part of the chain (when they're all crits it can go down hill fast ), and just gave up.

Now this was not a new quest chain to any of us (I'm fairly new but have done Splinterskull maybe a dozen times, several members were old timers on alts and one was a true rez), so it's not like we weren't familiar with the chain or unprepared., but none of us had any clue what was causing the problem.

Question is, were we seeing anti-power leveling code, was the quest chain just bugged, or were the mobs just AMAZINGLY AND IMPOSSIBLY lucky in their dice rolls? If it was anti-power leveling code (not sure how the level 16 could have helped us since he wasn't even in the instance), why did it continue after he dropped? Would breaking and reforming have solved it? Any ideas?

I'm guessing you didn't have any Fortification, and your AC was high enough to require a 19-20 for them to hit you...just a thought.

[Hjarki]

I'm guessing you didn't have any Fortification, and your AC was high enough to require a 19-20 for them to hit you...just a thought.

If his AC was so high that it required a 19-20 to hit him, then he would have only seen 10% critical hits on him since the confirmation roll would have only hit on a 19-20.

[Shima-ra]

Hobgoblins have always been criting alot, its the weapon they use.
Its part of the fun, just like that fact that they have low hp and they are alot of them coming at you.

I'd even say thats what makes it one of the best quest line in the game...


and my favorite mobs to fight. I love hobgoblins!

[asphodeli]

you need heavy fornification...oops i mean fortification

[MrWizard]

If his AC was so high that it required a 19-20 to hit him, then he would have only seen 10% critical hits on him since the confirmation roll would have only hit on a 19-20.

I cannot remember what is added or ignored for this confirm to crit, but I am pretty sure it is easier to confirm a crit than it is to 'hit' first.


EDIT: CHeck that. The exact same bonuses apply. However there are things that can be added to a confirm that are not added to your original to hit such as seeker on an item, confirm crit enhancements, etc....

So if they can only hit on a 19 or higher and a 19 or higher is a crit, and they have some extras to their 'to confirm' of lets say 4...that means they only need a 15 or so to confirm.

still don't sound right. However, perhaps you got hit by the mobs and thought they were crits. Some of them do some heavy stuff..and if you were tripped, or hit from behind, etc... and hold monster is a crit.

Some mobs in there just hit real hard. Did it actually say 'you were critically hit' or are you just thinking it was one?

[Spookyaction]

I went into part 1 on elite and was not able to reproduce your issue. In fact of the entire time i was in there i only got crit 1 time even with my fort item off. IT was the hobgoblin slayer who got the crit, they are the heavys that have the falchion like weapon. I had a 31 ac and found that that most of the time i was missed or getting a grazing hit.

[bobbryan2]

If his AC was so high that it required a 19-20 to hit him, then he would have only seen 10% critical hits on him since the confirmation roll would have only hit on a 19-20.

Creatures don't have to confirm crits.

At least... that's been my experience. And never been shown otherwise.

[TasteTester]

I'm just going to chalk it up to the instance/quest chain bugging on us then, or some quirk with dungeon scaling. I thought it might have to do with the level 16 who was in group but not in the instance but I take it from the comments that wasn't the case.

To address some of the other comments:
I noticed the pasting we were getting right away, the fighter in the group was the first to check his combat log (he looked 3-4 times) and notice the "hit is always a crit" occurring. I looked in my log at that point and saw the same thing. Did we rigorously test it? No, we were trying to run the chain.

Also a fan of Splinterskull, Shima-ra, it's just that in my dozen or so times through it, including a run on elite with this same character earlier in the week, I hadn't seen this happen.

Heavy Fort?? First parts of this chain are level 4. Heavy fort isn't even generally available until, what, level 9 or so, right?

And thanks for checking on this, Spookyaction.

[rimble]

You might want to get in the habit of hitting CTRL + P, to take a screenshot, when you notice weird things going on. It'd be real nice to see some of your combat log right now. It also allows you to concentrate on the task at hand and you can go back and look at things closer at a later time.

[tihocan]

Creatures don't have to confirm crits.

At least... that's been my experience. And never been shown otherwise.

I'd need to re-do some tests to be 100% sure, but recently I've tried to be critically hit by a kobold in kobold assault, and it took a while before it happened (way more than 20 swings). So either it got trouble rolling a 20 or it had to confirm it.

[rimble]

I'd need to re-do some tests to be 100% sure, but recently I've tried to be critically hit by a kobold in kobold assault, and it took a while before it happened (way more than 20 swings). So either it got trouble rolling a 20 or it had to confirm it.

They absolutely have to confirm. High AC builds can even get by without Heavy Fort because of the unlikeliness of them rolling a 19-20 twice in a row. I'm not necessarily recommending that, but it's playable.

[Zenako]

The RNG could just have been bugged in some way and was spewing out high numbers a lot. Were you guys also Criting the Mobs a lot?? Just looking for an explanation.

Also there used to be some bugs with certain buffs (that were supposedly fixed) where they actually dropped your effective AC to some large NEGative value, meaning that mobs would basically autohit you. Might not notice on a low AC toon, since you are expected to get hit, but it was REALLY obvious on mid to high AC builds.

Whatever, it gave the runs some more spice and excitment I assume....

[Kasen_Darksword]

Mobs dont need to confirm crits, only we do.

[sirgog]

Creatures don't have to confirm crits.

At least... that's been my experience. And never been shown otherwise.

They do need to, I can attest to this from running an extreme AC build that just never bothered with Fortification until about level 15 (not until the Shroud).

They almost never suffered crits.

[Lorichie]

This is a long shot and i would prolly bug report it, even if you cant prove it and its kinda too late for them to really look at, it will at least draw their attention to it so if it happens again in the future this post and your experience can be referenced.

A long time ago, i discovered a bug where if you were wearing a +1 protection item and had any form of protection from evil cast on you, you had essentially zero ac for duration of spell. Even 0.25 kobalds in low road were hitting me for every hit cept for a one.

However remote, this could be a case where you all had a certain item/spell/bad mojo on all of you and it was causing a glitch.

Yes, its a long shot, but this is how big bugs are first discovered for the very first time. Keep track of this, report it just for the heck of it, and really try to remember and document every single thing that happened prior to and during the quest. There may be a time in the coming months someone just might finally figure it out.

Good luck.

Rich

[TheBroken_JPK]

I thought I heard at one point that certain mobs, like hobgoblins, ogres, and trolls, only needed a 15 to crit. Especially when they do that funky dance swing. Is that not true? Those guys always seem to crit me. I hate fighting them at low lvls.

[Angelus_dead]

Maybe the Ray of Enfeeblement spell was sometimes involved.

When we started Splinterskull, we noticed fairly quickly that the level 4 (+2 for elite) mobs were *hammering* us.

Putting the quest on Elite does not increase the level of monsters by just two. This is very easy to see, as the CR number of the monster is printed on the targeting portrait.

It is the loot that increases +2. Monsters and traps increase by more.