Dual vorpal kamas kinda suck...

[Teran]

At least they do at level 12 fighting level 12 mobs.

I'm a 10 FvS / 2 Mnk. It takes me longer to kill gnolls with these vorpals than with my zero crafting holy burst scimitars.

I'm not complaining, and I suspect that as I level that I will find vorpals to be better as I'm told mob health increases dramatically. I just thought that I'd share my experience in case others out there are wondering whether to try to get vorpals at <= 12.


Regards,
Teran

[Impaqt]

At least they do at level 12 fighting level 12 mobs.

I'm a 10 FvS / 2 Mnk. It takes me longer to kill gnolls with these vorpals than with my zero crafting holy burst scimitars.

I'm not complaining, and I suspect that as I level that I will find vorpals to be better as I'm told mob health increases dramatically. I just thought that I'd share my experience in case others out there are wondering whether to try to get vorpals at <= 12.


Regards,
Teran

Are you basing these numbers/observations on Soloing or in a full group?

[Angelus_dead]

At least they do at level 12 fighting level 12 mobs.

I'm a 10 FvS / 2 Mnk. It takes me longer to kill gnolls with these vorpals than with my zero crafting holy burst scimitars.

Well, yeah.

Vorpals obviously take an average of 20 attacks to kill something, so if you can otherwise defeat monsters in fewer than 20 swings that method will be better. The large majority of monsters will either take under 20 attacks, or be immune to vorpal.

The most prominent examples of high-hp monsters who are killable with Vorpal are Shroud devils and outsiders in Prison of the Planes. I guess also elite humans from Inspiration Center might count (although they sometimes cast Deathward). But of course, the lower your character's strength and damage bonuses, the greater the chance your DPS will kill things slower than vorping.

[Teran]

I'm basing it on solo. It's worse in groups as mobs die faster.

One factor might be that I took the improved crit feat (which I'll eventually respec out of).

It's also possible that I should have gotten vorpal scimitars instead, to take advantage of the crit. I went with the kamas as the 10% speed increase seemed like it might be better given that the goal is to roll a 20 as quickly as possible. And because I'm poor and vorpals are the most expensive thing I've ever bought, and I've no intention of replacing them anytime soon.

[Impaqt]

I'm basing it on solo. It's worse in groups as mobs die faster.

One factor might be that I took the improved crit feat (which I'll eventually respec out of).

It's also possible that I should have gotten vorpal scimitars instead, to take advantage of the crit. I went with the kamas as the 10% speed increase seemed like it might be better given that the goal is to roll a 20 as quickly as possible. And because I'm poor and vorpals are the most expensive thing I've ever bought, and I've no intention of replacing them anytime soon.

Vorpals only Vorpal on a 20. IC has no effect.

[Uska]

No more then any other dual vorpal it all depends on what your fighting with my pure monk in the vale I can kill things faster with my weaking of pure good handwraps faster then I can with my vorpal kamas or even my greensteel kamas but sometimes I still use the vorpals because its fun.

[Teran]

Vorpals only Vorpal on a 20. IC has no effect.

Yep, I know. I mentioned IC simply because it further improves the non-vorpal attacks.

[Twerpp]

What in this game made you think 2 vorpal kamas on a multiclassed favored soul would be anything special?

[Teran]

What in this game made you think 2 vorpal kamas on a multiclassed favored soul would be anything special?

Some advice.

Math works better than advice, and it's time I did some.

So according to DDOCatalog, it appears that a rough average (rounding up a bit to be conservative) for CR10 - CR15 mobs is 25 hit points per CR. I'll do math based on CR12, so 300 hit points. [If someone has more accurate data than this, then please share. Also, I haven't found any data around health for Vale mobs (ex. Devils, Orthons, etc.).]

I'm using holy burst scimitars of righteousness and have a 30% chance to crit. Did some spreadsheet calculations, and net is that without power attack I'm averaging 26.9 damage per swing against evil mobs.

If I'm standing still and using Divine Power, I get 7 attacks in my animation sequence. I still haven't figured out how long that actually takes, but it doesn't matter for this comparison.

So on average it's taking me 11.15 attacks to down a CR12 evil mob solo. Versus say 20 attacks average to down something using vorpals.

Okay, let's take another case and say that the evil mob has 10DR that I can't get through. In that case I'm averaging 16.9 damage per attack, or 17.75 attacks to kill the CR12 mob. Again, better than vorpals on average.

Does anyone have a data source that has mob hit points (and DR numbers if >DR10) of devils, orthons, and in general mobs CR16 and above? I'm curious as when the math shows that it's better to use vorpals.


Regards,
Teran

[Missing_Minds]

What in this game made you think 2 vorpal of any type would be anything special?

Fixed it you.

[Twerpp]

Fixed it you.

Fixed it for you.

Hehe

[Missing_Minds]

Hehe

Great.. forpaled myself.

[Angelus_dead]

Does anyone have a data source that has mob hit points (and DR numbers if >DR10) of devils, orthons, and in general mobs CR16 and above? I'm curious as when the math shows that it's better to use vorpals.

Shroud Orthon, DR 10/Good, 5000 hitpoints

[Arkat]

Shroud Orthon, DR 10/Good, 5000 hitpoints

Agreed.

I'm also guessing the mobs in Shavarath content would also be best Vorpaled instead of DPSed. At least that's my experience.

[Teran]

Good info - thanks.

[taurean430]

If it helps; I've found that TWF using the following weapons to be lots of fun:

main hand: +1 Paralyzing Scimitar of Pure Good - with added icy burst
off hand: +1 Vorpal Scimitar of Pure Good - with added icy burst

If I don't vorpal them, I paralyze them. DPS'ing them down works pretty well also.

Recipies are pretty inexpensive, save the #5 recipie on the AH. Motes are easy to get as well.

I also play a FvS/Monk Splash, and it's been really fun. With those weapons + Divine Power + Divine Favor + FvS and Elf enhancements = Win.

[Angelus_dead]

I'm also guessing the mobs in Shavarath content would also be best Vorpaled instead of DPSed. At least that's my experience.

That will depend on the details of the opponent and the player character. An Orthon encountered by an individual out in Devil Battlefield has 730 hp, but inside an elite dungeon he'll have 2130. So a character whose per-attack average is less than 2130/20 = 106 might want to try Vorpal instead of DPS; but only if the lower enhancement bonus of the vorpal doesn't cause him to miss that mob's AC (which is 46). Miscellaneous effects like greensteel insight AC could also push the decision.

Inside Tower of Despair an Orthon has more hp than that, although still less than in Shroud. But TOD devils are immune to vorpal anyway.