Ddo 2

[Glorndove]

Ok so , we got the ball rolling it seems on F2P accounts and now the rest of us VIP members are'nt feeling so VI. None the less , it appears the F2P model is working well for DDO. After all it is a great MMO.

I often find myself wondering why a game like this gos unnoticed by a large amount of people. Yes its true that someone people dont like the pigeon holing that happens with having to have certain types of classes in a group and for the most part , not doing PURE classes can make things harder for you. This game can allow for people to mess up a build on they're class very very easily.

Overall though , I think most people enjoy the flow of the game elements and not only that , they enjoy the puzzles and difficulty of instances even if they die quite a few times doing them.

From what I gather , this game seems to hinge mostly off its own rules , obviously its to hard to incorporate the same things in the rule books into a MMO , it just would not be as vibrant and often times would be boring.

However , look at things from a perspective of advancement in MMO's and new MMO's coming out. I would like to see Turbine come out with a second version of DDO , named DDO 2 or something like that.

You could use a beefier graphics engine than what LOTRO has , make it a tad more visually appealing , offer leveling up to 20 same as the current DDO but also allow prestige classes and then also implement the 4th edition combat powers , at will / encounter / and daily abilities / spells. It would work perfectly in a MMO.

At will is like your spam buttons , encounter is used once per encounter and once combat is broken for more than 10 seconds , a single charge comes back , and dailies get replentished each time you hit a rest shrine.

More puzzles , more complex scripting , better AI , and allowing monster to have and use the same abilities and be of equal level to a at level group. Challenge in DDO is good on hard and elite and the new epic sounds promising. Usage of trigger floor plates etc , complex dungeon designs and very long dungeons with great loot rewards based off the average level of the group would make for a kick ass MMO.

Tons of stuff to go off of and just use the numbers and abilities straight out of the Monster Manuals and other supplements from 4th edition. What a great MMO to design , not to mention , you have DDO on a f2p model , use DDO 2 as a pay only model to start like you did with DDO.

Anyone else have ideas , thoughts on this? Feel free to give ideas , and please refrain from the bashing my thread , just be constructive and show Turbine if your interested in this concept or not..............

[flynnjsw]

I would not move to something if it used the 4th Edition ruleset. I am not going to bash 4th Edition, or your post, or you for that matter. I tried it, I could not get my head around it, and I still prefer 3.5 or Pathfinder 3.75.

If they were to do everything else that you suggested with graphics and everything else, but not go 4E, then I would not have a problem with it.

[Tharris]

Take away the enhancement system full stop.

Put in appropriate loot tables and I will move.

I want an AC of 40 ish to be high, a +5 weapon to be the ultimate, 200 HP's are sufficient.

Make traps and mob types random.

Basically use the rules as written in the PnP books. Some of the 4th edition rules would be good.

[Mockduck]

I think Turbine is looking more at incremental upgrades to its current game over building a sequel. Seems to make sense in the current commercial environment. From a company perspective, it makes more sense to upgrade a game with an established player base already seeing financial success (at least post DDO:U) over spending millions of dollars to build a new game and then try to see if you can convince your current population to switch over. Just ask Asheron's Call 2!

Also, my understanding is that 4th Edition has been a commercial and critical failure of sorts, at least at the moment. I don't see many people talking about how much they love 4th Edition D&D. I personally really like it! But it seems like a big risk to use that rule set, since there are so many "set in stone" opinions about it already.

There has long been talk about whether Turbine would work with Wotc to bring 4th edition rules into DDO. I just don't see it happening, despite 4th edition frequently being described as "MMO ready".

But who knows? I am old enough to remember how poorly the 3.5 ruleset was received early on, and of course nowadays it's considered to be one of the best D&D rule sets out there. I just don't think we'll see a DDO 2 until DDO has run its course, and with Asheron's Call being a decade old at this point, maybe never?

[Josh]

I want an AC of 40 ish to be high, a +5 weapon to be the ultimate, 200 HP's are sufficient.

None of those are good for PnP characters at 20th + level. Two of them are quite gimp actually.

[KKDragonLord]

I would not move to something if it used the 4th Edition ruleset. I am not going to bash 4th Edition, or your post, or you for that matter. I tried it, I could not get my head around it, and I still prefer 3.5 or Pathfinder 3.75.

If they were to do everything else that you suggested with graphics and everything else, but not go 4E, then I would not have a problem with it.

I was about to agree with you, because after a couple of years or so playing 4e i got extremely dissapointed with it. But then it hit me how the 4e rules could actually benefit an MMO much more than the good semi-old 3e ever could.

In 4e monster stats are completely unrelated to character stats, you can make a thong wearing orc shaman have more AC than a fully plated paladin with a shield. Hes just bad ass like that. This is gives a lot of freedom for DMs and Devs alike. You just have to follow a narrow math progression to balance the encounter.

In 4e Save or Die is practically non existant so every ability has to have some use. The balance of the classes is also narrow mathed, which makes things easier for the Devs.

The weapon tables are very well made giving several great options for several character builds, its really refreshingly varied.

What i hate the most about 4e is pretty much the flavor of it.... super demonic Tieflings all around, the travesty they did to some settings, the new "classes", and... well lots of things.

I would vote for them to make a 4e version of 3.5 DDO, using Eberron as it was on 3e, and keeping the flavor of the game intact. But only IF there was no other way, (since Hasbro is the one who calls the shots and they want 4e to be all there is)

IF possible, i would prefer a 3.75 Turbine edition of DDO, but this time with All the Core Eberron character races, classes (psionics included), Balanced weapon choices, adding support for lesser weapons with feats or enhancements, and 10 times (or more) more monsters and Spells, tweaking spells to make them consistently useful in their level range.

A team of D&D experts would be needed to uncover all the assets of the 3e rules to bring balance to the game in a good way, including monster types, feats selection, magic item properties, prestige classes (PrEs for MCs included), and much more.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I think Turbine should learn from experience and definately impliment DDO, it worked so well when they implimented AC2.

[Memnir]

4th edition is a festering bucket of fail.
I won't have a thing to do with it, even if it's DDO2.

Now that the ball is indeed rolling.... let's keep DDO alive and well and expanding.

[dv8maker123]

Bah, give me back my 2nd edition with a -10 AC and THAC0. (and still lose the enhancement system).

[Samiusbot]

But who knows? I am old enough to remember how poorly the 3.5 ruleset was received early on, and of course nowadays it's considered to be one of the best D&D rule sets out there. I just don't think we'll see a DDO 2 until DDO has run its course, and with Asheron's Call being a decade old at this point, maybe never?

Correction, 3.0 was received poorly early on, but people grew to like a lot about it. 3.5 for the most part well received and even liked. But still had moments of fail.

4.0 would be fine as a board game, but I don't play to move guys around the board, with a small plot added in almost as an after thought.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Correction, 3.0 was received poorly early on, but people grew to like a lot about it. 3.5 for the most part well received and even liked. But still had moments of fail.

4.0 would be fine as a board game, but I don't play to move guys around the board, with a small plot added in almost as an after thought.

I really enjoyed 3.0. It had a few balance issues that 3.5 cleaned up (really 3.5 was an excuse to sell more books, a few house rules/erata would have fixed it)

4.0... Bought the books, returned the books.

[petegunn]

None of those are good for PnP characters at 20th + level. Two of them are quite gimp actually.

He is not trying to say that those two changes to his character are feasible with the present situation in game, but a scaling down of the players that would coincide with a similar deflation of the npc's .

[Samiusbot]

I tried to use the updates that WoTC had on their site for the changes, as to not buy 3.5 books but there was just so many.

I still would rank 3.5 as the best rules set, but the more I learn about Pathfinder the more I wonder.

[Mockduck]

Correction, 3.0 was received poorly early on, but people grew to like a lot about it. 3.5 for the most part well received and even liked. But still had moments of fail.

4.0 would be fine as a board game, but I don't play to move guys around the board, with a small plot added in almost as an after thought.

That's a good point, but around my area there was a huge backlash against 3.5 as well, with a lot of people saying "get rid of third edition!" They equated 3.0 and 3.5 together, rightly or wrongly. And I also remember a lot of people saying that 3.5 is only for "rules lawyers" and is a mathematical numbers game instead of a role playing game. Not true, but that was the perception in my neck of the woods.

[Doff_v]

Ok so , we got the ball rolling it seems on F2P accounts and now the rest of us VIP members are'nt feeling so VI. None the less , it appears the F2P model is working well for DDO. After all it is a great MMO.

I often find myself wondering why a game like this gos unnoticed by a large amount of people. Yes its true that someone people dont like the pigeon holing that happens with having to have certain types of classes in a group and for the most part , not doing PURE classes can make things harder for you. This game can allow for people to mess up a build on they're class very very easily.

Overall though , I think most people enjoy the flow of the game elements and not only that , they enjoy the puzzles and difficulty of instances even if they die quite a few times doing them.

From what I gather , this game seems to hinge mostly off its own rules , obviously its to hard to incorporate the same things in the rule books into a MMO , it just would not be as vibrant and often times would be boring.

However , look at things from a perspective of advancement in MMO's and new MMO's coming out. I would like to see Turbine come out with a second version of DDO , named DDO 2 or something like that.

You could use a beefier graphics engine than what LOTRO has , make it a tad more visually appealing , offer leveling up to 20 same as the current DDO but also allow prestige classes and then also implement the 4th edition combat powers , at will / encounter / and daily abilities / spells. It would work perfectly in a MMO.

At will is like your spam buttons , encounter is used once per encounter and once combat is broken for more than 10 seconds , a single charge comes back , and dailies get replentished each time you hit a rest shrine.

More puzzles , more complex scripting , better AI , and allowing monster to have and use the same abilities and be of equal level to a at level group. Challenge in DDO is good on hard and elite and the new epic sounds promising. Usage of trigger floor plates etc , complex dungeon designs and very long dungeons with great loot rewards based off the average level of the group would make for a kick ass MMO.

Tons of stuff to go off of and just use the numbers and abilities straight out of the Monster Manuals and other supplements from 4th edition. What a great MMO to design , not to mention , you have DDO on a f2p model , use DDO 2 as a pay only model to start like you did with DDO.

Anyone else have ideas , thoughts on this? Feel free to give ideas , and please refrain from the bashing my thread , just be constructive and show Turbine if your interested in this concept or not..............

Timing was one big reason it went unnoticed, and is the same reason its flourishing now, good timing. People are bored, and after 4 years DDO is a much more complete game than anything out there, not to mention the D&D rule set allows you to create Uniqueness. Sad truth is that most MMOs out there could use 4 more years of development.

As much as a DDO2 sounds appealing id like to just see them keep improving this game.

[winsom]

DDO 2 would be 4th edition because that is the latest D&D property that Hasbro would insist on.

I would rather play DDO 1 with its similarities to 3E / 3.5 edition D&D.

By all means, Please update DDO with more improvements !

I remember when Everquest 1 was updated with new character avatar models. Sweet !
EVE Online got updated ship models.

DDO needs updated models too. If you have seen turbine's LOTRO character models then you know how DDO looks primative by comparison.

[flynnjsw]

I tried to use the updates that WoTC had on their site for the changes, as to not buy 3.5 books but there was just so many.

I still would rank 3.5 as the best rules set, but the more I learn about Pathfinder the more I wonder.

The group I was playing with started to migrate to Pathfinder (3.75) when 4E was starting to come out in previews. None of us were really very interested in 4E to begin with. We actually ran a couple of the Pathfinder Adventure Paths and I was very impressed.

After that I tried 4E a few times, but like I said I could never get my head around it. However not having played it as much as some I will never blast it just for being not 3.5.

[Samiusbot]

One of the best things in Ddo is the option to use a little of this edition or that edition. And morph it in to ddo.

One of the best examples I can think of was explained to me at a Gencon a few years back.

In 3/3.5 Move silent and hide in shadows were two separate things. Ddo had one feat sneak that more or less was both of these skills together. In 4.0 there is the one hiding skill. I think it is stealth? I don't play a lot of 4.0.

[ddaedelus]

I enjoy DDO, but I honestly do not think that there's much value in producing another D&D based MMO, be it DDO2 or some other reinvention.

I'm convinced that the D&D ruleset (3.5) just doesn't work well for what audiences are demanding in MMOs these days. It doesn't translate well to a different format (MMO vs. PnP) and the rules are just too darn complicated. 3.5 barely works for DDO and even then only after banging it like a square peg into a round hole. (I like the result of that banging, like I said, but I am aware that my tastes can be... uncommon.)

4e may or may not work as a MMO system, but honestly (sadly) I have no inclination to even look at it to find out.

[Uccisore]

Take away the enhancement system full stop.

Put in appropriate loot tables and I will move.

I want an AC of 40 ish to be high, a +5 weapon to be the ultimate, 200 HP's are sufficient.

Make traps and mob types random.

Basically use the rules as written in the PnP books. Some of the 4th edition rules would be good.

You know, I gotta say I don't think you CAN use the rules in the PnP books and have it work very well as an MMO. You can get close, but...I haven't been through a single instance yet that a character of my class + level should have had a prayer of dealing with in PnP. If you want instances to consist of fights of maybe, 1-2 monsters of your CR per party member per rest point, then fine, use PnP. Anything more action-packed than that, and you're gonna have to make concessions.