Should we really be suprised?

[Arlith]

For four years we have been screaming at Turbine, "Your going to break the game!"

Attack animation change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Firewall nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Trip nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Evasion change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Removing the few really difficult challenges in lower level quests - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!" (Needed to say that twice)

Human versatility - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Everything I missed - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

For years we have been screaming about them breaking the game. Really, honestly, can you say you are suprised when they actually do it?

Just asking.

I find it kind of funny. I htink they broke things that weren't even addressed by the update. Just wow.

[DragonMageT]

Not really surprised. It's starting to become the norm instead of an exception.
What is surprising is that heads don't roll over some of the big mistakes. Maybe they do and we just don't hear about it.

I work in IT (Network Engineer) in a 24/7/365 shop and if I did some of that ****, I would be in someones office getting my you know what chewed out. If I kept making mistakes, FIRED.

What is also surprising is that bugs are not caught during testing (if they do such a thing).
A few bugs can get by, no big deal, but man this update 3 seems to have many.

You know the standard Development System -> Test Servers -> Production Servers scenario.
And the Test server should be Lamannia server, I know it's a preview server but it should be the
test server with the ability for players to play on and at least keep their gold, xp, and levels being pushed back
to production servers, not that difficult. Many of the bugs would be found and reported in such a scenario.

Seriously, you push out an update and TOR is closed, drops rates broken, casual difficulty is broken (which I didn't care for anyway), TR disabled, etc.. These seem like pretty easy things to notice during testing.

Nerfing things is also starting to become the norm.

Just my 2 cents worth, maybe I am jealous that their IT dept. can get away with it and I can't

[ArichValtrahn]

Firewall nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

[Draccus]

Unless this is your first MMO...or even your first computer game, you shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

The computer industry, unlike any other industry I can think of, has an massive tolerance for knowingly releasing flawed products to the public and either ignoring the issues or fixing them slowly and incompletely.

Just be thankful that real engineers and manufacturers hold themselves to higher standards than the folks that make computer software!

I've been playing MMO's for 12 years. Turbine is no better or worse when it comes to breaking their game and releasing bugs than any other game company.

[Zereth501]

Unless this is your first MMO...or even your first computer game, you shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

The computer industry, unlike any other industry I can think of, has an massive tolerance for knowingly releasing flawed products to the public and either ignoring the issues or fixing them slowly and incompletely.

Just be thankful that real engineers and manufacturers hold themselves to higher standards than the folks that make computer software!

I've been playing MMO's for 12 years. Turbine is no better or worse when it comes to breaking their game and releasing bugs than any other game company.

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

[HeavenlyCloud]

Wait are you saying that's not Turbine signature move?

[rimble]

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

They used to stack. It was pretty ridiculous.

[Club'in]

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

Also, you used to be able to cast it at a door, and it would roast everything on the other side. Same with the fog type spells, like Cloudkill.

[Thrudh]

For four years we have been screaming at Turbine, "Your going to break the game!"

Attack animation change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Firewall nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Trip nerf - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Evasion change - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Removing the few really difficult challenges in lower level quests - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Dungeon Alert - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!" (Needed to say that twice)

Human versatility - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

Everything I missed - "Dammit Turbine! You broke the game!"

None of those things broke the game... I'm not surprised at all that devs quit listening to us...

Think of all the changes where people screamed and moaned and cried like 4-year old girls... And in many of those cases, the game got better (enhancement changes, etc.)

If I was a dev, I would tune out of most of the crybabies as well...

[Thrudh]

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

Exactly.

[Memnir]

Surprised by it? Not really. Not anymore.
Dismayed, disheartened, and demoralized? Yeah, that still happens. At least when it's on the raw scale of yesterdays clustermung. One or two major problems/really bad decisions in an update is par for the course - but this is tragically comic how much has tanked in Update 3. I, at least, got the feeling that more than one person was asleep behind the wheel on this one...

[Arlith]

Firewall is easy mode for mid to low levels. That spell has been nerfed? What did it do before? Insta-complete the quest youre in?

They used to stack. And you used to be able to buy scrolls of it, so anyone with a midway decent UMD could firestorm a village.

None of those things broke the game... I'm not surprised at all that devs quit listening to us...

I did not say those changes broke the game. I said we screamed it at them when they did it. But this last mod? This is reminiscent of early mods that had bugs that shut parts of/ or the whole game down for extended amounts of time. I had thought we were past this.

Mostly I am mad at how it is handled. Saying this and that is coming in Mod 3, and having important, waited for, bragged about features not included? Then saying, "well we said update 3, we didn't say WHICH update 3." Bah. They screwed the pooch on this one. But you know what, I can be okay with that. IF you come out and say, "Hey, it looked good on paper, it looked good on the test server, and it looked good on the preview server. We put it over here and stuff blew up. We will fix it."

Don't say, "Updates work differently now." or any other bullsquat. We get enough of that from the government.

[bartcom2000]

lol...all of this is why i do not log into the game for several days after an update. I let them push the update, I then watch the mayhem on the forums till it dies down, then i let them push the patch or hot fix, then I watch the forums for the "thank god its working now" threads....then BAM!!!! I log in, update, and play...no hastles...

Funny thing though.. MWF2 never has these issues.. we had a patch that semi-nerf'd a shotgun and I never even noticed it update, never skipped a beat.
the Akimbo 1887's were waaaayyy toooo deadly from stupid distances.....

[binnsr]

Unless this is your first MMO...or even your first computer game, you shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

The computer industry, unlike any other industry I can think of, has an massive tolerance for knowingly releasing flawed products to the public and either ignoring the issues or fixing them slowly and incompletely.

Just be thankful that real engineers and manufacturers hold themselves to higher standards than the folks that make computer software!

I've been playing MMO's for 12 years. Turbine is no better or worse when it comes to breaking their game and releasing bugs than any other game company.

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

whoa, easy tiger!! Before you get all excited about neg repping folks, there's a difference between enterprise financial software and consumer-level software.

The software industry has a propensity, in general, to release buggy, incomplete software. As an example, Windows 2000 launched with 63,000 known bugs (give or take a thousand) -- those were just the ones that they knew about and deemed not worth slipping the timeline to fix prior to launch..

How many PC games (MMO or otherwise) have you purchased in the last couple of years that didn't have patches within the first few months?
Heck, you can go down to WalMart and pick up any game off the $9.99 shelf and have a 50% chance of it not even installing properly on a system that meets it's 'Recommended Specs'

[Memnir]

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

And you should!
I mean, he was obviously talking about you, taking a potshot at you, and disparaging you personally!

[Ministry]

WHEW! I must really, REALLY be lucky as I narrowly escaped the wrath of your negative rep. I don't know WHAT I would have done had you negative rep'd me!

You, on the other hand, are not so lucky...

Mwahahahahah!

Now that's good.

+1

OMG... you escaped his wrath, could -1 him and got +1 for making me laugh hysterically... all in all, not a bad day's work.

[Missing_Minds]

Just be thankful that real engineers and manufacturers hold themselves to higher standards than the folks that make computer software!

Depends on your industry. Where I'm at, SW mistakes could cost people's lives. Software is also the few industries where your kid neighbor that still hasn't gone through puberty could publish something that gets used by 1,000s of people.

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

Well... better to wish to give neg rep than to change the applications for a pay deduction. *chuckles*

[Doff_v]

I'm a software engineer. I make custom management and finance applications for companies, and they're reliable. You're lucky I can't give you negative reputation yet.

Well when they make the Next Finance and Managment MMO ill have you to thank when it runs perfectly and no patch ever has a Bug!

I have a level 7 Micrsoft Excel Spreadsheet with a level 2 Cost accounting software Linked to a level 5 Time Managment Software, my guy is Uber and my GL Is Balanced to boot!

Seriously if your so good get hired by turbine and fix it.

[Raelg14]

Well when they make the Next Finance and Managment MMO ill have you to thank when it runs perfectly and no patch ever has a Bug!

I have a level 7 Micrsoft Excel Spreadsheet with a level 2 Cost accounting software Linked to a level 5 Time Managment Software, my guy is Uber and my GL Is Balanced to boot!

Seriously if your so good get hired by turbine and fix it.

ROFL, **** used all my rep for the day to the previous posters in the thread, but thats funny. +1 Rep for you when I can.

[Zereth501]

Funny. He insults a whole profession for a few bugs in his game and somehow I am the bad guy. No wonder Turbine does not listen anymore.

A typical video game is a marvel of engineering to begin with. It typically requires more than ten years of experience in programmation, high skills with mathematics for 3d and physics engines, and a whole lot of other technical skills. It also takes artists who know how to work with limited resources, and management that can handle all of those. It amounts to 2, 3 years of hard work for about 15 persons. MMO are even harder to make : you have to make the whole thing run on an infrastructure able to withstand thousands of concurrent access in real time, and somehow make sure that no amount of system crash or deliberate hacking on a client is going to even be noticed by other players. And DDO might have been the hardest of them all : it combines massively multiplayer features with twitch gameplay, which is very hard to pull off. It must be done on a budget, with little money, little time and too few people. Not to mention the fact that DDO is based on D&D 3.5, which is a nightmare.

An incredible amount of effort went, and still goes into this game. Yet all I ever see on the forums is whining and more whining. I only saw three topics saying it is a good game, one of which I had to start myself.

The whole software profession feels underappreciated. Why are the bugs / balance issues not fixed yet? Imagine for an instant working at Turbine. It's 8:00 pm and you have just read the forums. Do you feel like staying late at work fixing the game or going back home?

... I don't even know why I bother. I can already read the following posts nitpicking at everything I said or missing the point entirely. At least I tried.

Everything is easy for those who do not have to do it.

EDIT : I just posted this, and the first topic I see on the recent subjects list is Awesome job turbine for employing imbeciles to deal with in-game issues