Another "I need help with my build" thread

[Marar]

Hi, I'm close to unlocking drow, and I want to make him a rogue, first and foremost I want him to have high dps in group situations, and if he can solo well that would be nice too, hope I didn't mess up the build TO badly, I had in mind a dex based rapier build, hope that's viable.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Chaotic Good Drow Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 180
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 20
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    12
Dexterity            16                    26
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom               12                    12
Charisma             12                    12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    31
Bluff                 1                     7
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device        5                    24
Haggle                1                     1
Heal                  1                     1
Hide                  7                    39
Intimidate            1                     1
Jump                  1                     1
Listen                5                    26
Move Silently         7                    39
Open Lock             7                    31
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                5                    26
Spot                  5                    26
Swim                  1                     1
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      5                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II

[William_the_Bat]

A couple things, for a dex based rogue, your dex is kinda low. Consider taking points from CHA and WIS to get that to 18, 20 would be better.

The reasoning is that 2 points of CHA is 1 point of UMD, 2 points of WIS is 1 point to spot and listen, while 2 points of DEX will let you hit more often, confirm crits more often, gives you a higher AC and reflex save. You just get way more use out of your dex.

You also put no points into tumble, and while this is sorta an optional skill, having a few points into it can save you a lot of falling damage, especially in places like the reaver raid where featherfall can't help you. Diplomacy should also be on your list for those times when you have too much attacking you. Listen and balance are good, but tumble and diplomacy might save your bacon.

Of course, my rogues tend to have high int and take all of them, but I just like having the bonus to disable and search. Keep in mind your int will power your assassinate ability.

For feats, consider trading weapon focus for toughness. The life of a squishy rogue is short enough, and the extra HP from toughness and the racial toughness enhancements can help out a lot.

I can see that you picked defensive roll as one of your rogue specials... the general consensus on that one is it won't help much, especially compared to slippery mind and improved evasion as defensive abilities. If you read up on that one, you'll see it gives you a -chance- (and not a great chance) to take half damage from a melee attack if your health is very low already. Generally, rogues have so few HP that once you are below 20% for the ability to be active, even half damage is going to kill you. Getting slippery mind earlier can be a big help, and a lot of people swear by the +1 skills thing.

Your enhancements look a little non-planned... which is no big deal, as they are very easy to reset. Things to shoot for include all the levels of subtle backstabbing (you'll die less this way) and probably the cheaper disable, search, and spot enhancements (you'll often be doing quests above your level on your way up, and you'll need the help on elite traps!)

It seems you do have a pretty good grasp on making a dex assassin build, my suggestions are mostly about survivability, and an exceptionally skilled rogue might scoff at some of them because they are too uber to grab aggro.

Good luck!

[Marar]

Ok, thank's for the imput, the reason why I put points in CHA and WIS is because I thought they help with saves (even thou I played a lot of PC D&D games before, I never payed any attention to how the save system worked, here it seems it matters more then what I played)

Also, if I take from WIS and CHA and put in DEX, is there any reason why not to take from STR and put into INT?

As for the feats, never played a rogue before, so I wasen't to sure what special feats to select, I'll take that into consideration

And yes, the enhancements are very un-planned, I did the build at 2 A.M. and it took plenty of time enough, without having to plan them too .

Also, is the build viable for high dps further on? or is a STR based khopesh one better? I kind of like DEX based for the extra AC, but like I said, never played a rogue before .

oh yeah, about tumble: is it "active" when i move or do i have to roll?

[Quikster]

Ok, thank's for the imput, the reason why I put points in CHA and WIS is because I thought they help with saves (even thou I played a lot of PC D&D games before, I never payed any attention to how the save system worked, here it seems it matters more then what I played)

Also, if I take from WIS and CHA and put in DEX, is there any reason why not to take from STR and put into INT?

As for the feats, never played a rogue before, so I wasen't to sure what special feats to select, I'll take that into consideration

And yes, the enhancements are very un-planned, I did the build at 2 A.M. and it took plenty of time enough, without having to plan them too .

Also, is the build viable for high dps further on? or is a STR based khopesh one better? I kind of like DEX based for the extra AC, but like I said, never played a rogue before .

oh yeah, about tumble: is it "active" when i move or do i have to roll?

I wouldnt take points from str. If you are going ac route change your alignment and take a level or two of monk. Leave your wis at 12 maybe and bump your int if going assasin.

2 monk also gives you 2 feats (or 1 monk gives you one feat). Drop wf and power critical. Id take toughness, Power Attack, Combat evasion (if going ac) and maybe twf defense, iron will or skill focus UMD.

Heres the rub about an ac build. To get the ac to a high number it takes a lot of grinding.

Tumble is both, if you roll, you roll instead of shimy, and you take less falling damage when you fall, no matter how you land.

Cha wont help with saves here unless you take a feat for it. I personally would leave wis higher and take a lvl of monk.

[Marar]

Ok, I took some of your advice in consideration, and so, ver 2.0 :

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 20
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    12
Dexterity            18                    27
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         16                    16
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    17
Bluff                 1                    17
Concentration         1                     2
Diplomacy             4                    24
Disable Device        7                    30
Haggle                0                     1
Heal                  0                     1
Hide                  8                    40
Intimidate            0                     1
Jump                  5                    16
Listen                1                    16
Move Silently         8                    40
Open Lock             8                    32
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                     4
Search                7                    29
Spot                  4                    26
Swim                  2                    16
Tumble                8                    19
Use Magic Device      4                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct III


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Cheat Death
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II

Basicly, I decided that I want more skills to play with, and actually read the whole assasination II description, so extra INT, huray!, also less CHA and WIS and more DEX, huray!, also read about diplomacy, and maxed that out, and tried to keep a balance skill wise, but I have absolutely no idea (at least concerning the non-critical skills), at what levels they should be in the end game.

And thank's a lot again for the imput!

edit : also, read somewhere that true neutral is better in some cases DPS-wise, if I do some raids, and I will do them , is this true? isin't it better to be good when fighting evil, or when having the good aura buff (how does that work btw?)

[Marar]

Quick question: is the Wrack Construct line worth getting?

[alelizio]

I wouldnt take points from str. If you are going ac route change your alignment and take a level or two of monk.

now, how exactly would you change your alignment? i wish to get a lvl as a monk, but i'm neutral. is there any option or NPC so that you can talk and get alignment changed? i'd aprecciate it a lot.

[KingOfCheese]

Quick question: is the Wrack Construct line worth getting?

No.

[KingOfCheese]

Ok, I took some of your advice in consideration, and so, ver 2.0 :


Basicly, I decided that I want more skills to play with, and actually read the whole assasination II description, so extra INT, huray!, also less CHA and WIS and more DEX, huray!, also read about diplomacy, and maxed that out, and tried to keep a balance skill wise, but I have absolutely no idea (at least concerning the non-critical skills), at what levels they should be in the end game.

And thank's a lot again for the imput!

edit : also, read somewhere that true neutral is better in some cases DPS-wise, if I do some raids, and I will do them , is this true? isin't it better to be good when fighting evil, or when having the good aura buff (how does that work btw?)

That build will work fine for you. Personally, I'd go with lower int and increase str or con--but if you want all those skills--that is a solid build.