Multiclassed Casters

[Baahb3]

I have been playing around with multiclassed caster builds lately and keep coming back to the poor caster level to over come spell resistance.

Is there any chance we could see something like the Practiced Spellcaster feat from the Complete Divine or Arcane books?

Allowing us to count up to 4 levels from a non casting class towards our caster level would add a lot of options to multiclassing casters.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Because of these issues, I think multi-classed casters are better for using buffs.

But there are a few spells with no save, and a few that do not check Spell resistance.

I created a post where I addressed a few multi-class caster issues.

I'm going to add specific spell suggestions to it in the near future.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195506

[Aspenor]

Specialize in conjurations and evocations. Don't bother casting spells with an SR check. Problem solved.

Web and stinking cloud work amazingly well.

[QuintonReece]

Hey Asp, this is kinda a noob question but I dont care. Where would I be able to check to see which spells make a SR check? Is it in the spell description of each spell or is there an easy list of them some where?

[Visty]

Hey Asp, this is kinda a noob question but I dont care. Where would I be able to check to see which spells make a SR check? Is it in the spell description of each spell or is there an easy list of them some where?

hover over the spell in your spellbook, there it says SR: Yes/No

[QuintonReece]

Thanks. Figured it was probably that easy but I'm at work and couldnt check it.

[VirieSquichie]

I have been playing around with multiclassed caster builds lately and keep coming back to the poor caster level to over come spell resistance.

Is there any chance we could see something like the Practiced Spellcaster feat from the Complete Divine or Arcane books?

Allowing us to count up to 4 levels from a non casting class towards our caster level would add a lot of options to multiclassing casters.

It also depends on how far you multiclass - a splash doesn't affect your chances all that much, but going 11/9 would make your choices severely limited.

I can't tell the difference between my 11 cleric / 1 rogue / 1 wizard and my pure clerics, really...sure, a few things may save where they wouldn't otherwise, but it's a minimal difference and the party's melees seem a bit bummed if every single thing is sitting on its arse anyhow.

(that cleric mutt is eventually going to be 11/2/7 BTW, though I'm not sure how much the wiz levels will really matter in the long run...experimental, don't ya know)

[Leyoni]

Because of these issues, I think multi-classed casters are better for using buffs.

But there are a few spells with no save, and a few that do not check Spell resistance.

I created a post where I addressed a few multi-class caster issues.

I'm going to add specific spell suggestions to it in the near future.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195506

I took a gander at your thread and have to say that, provided the splash is small, it is all much ado about nothing.

SR looks at caster level. AFAIK there is no monster in the game where you need max caster level plus max twinkage in order to overcome SR. That means missing a level or two is not going to have a significant impact provided the character has appropriate gear.

To lead with "multi-classed casters are better for using buffs" is just nonsense. In your own post you point out the problems with large splashes impacting duration and efficacy of buffs along with their increased chance of being dispelled.

A character with a small splash from some other class is scarcely less likely to overcome SR than a pure class character. A character with a large splash is more likely to face SP pool issues and provide weaker buffs that are more readily dispelled. So, your advice is wrong on both accounts.

Players with deep multiclassed casters should focus on spells that have no defense and leave buffs and resisted spells to the other casters. Players with minor splashes on their casters should continue on as if they were pure class.

Anyone can check out the spells for themself here. There are many for which SR does not apply and against which even end bosses do not (normally) have protection.

Note: this issue of end fights is a bit of a red herring since there are very few where casters actually are the ones counted on for success.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I took a gander at your thread and have to say that, provided the splash is small, it is all much ado about nothing.

SR looks at caster level. AFAIK there is no monster in the game where you need max caster level plus max twinkage in order to overcome SR. That means missing a level or two is not going to have a significant impact provided the character has appropriate gear.

To lead with "multi-classed casters are better for using buffs" is just nonsense. In your own post you point out the problems with large splashes impacting duration and efficacy of buffs along with their increased chance of being dispelled.

A character with a small splash from some other class is scarcely less likely to overcome SR than a pure class character. A character with a large splash is more likely to face SP pool issues and provide weaker buffs that are more readily dispelled. So, your advice is wrong on both accounts.

Players with deep multiclassed casters should focus on spells that have no defense and leave buffs and resisted spells to the other casters. Players with minor splashes on their casters should continue on as if they were pure class.

Anyone can check out the spells for themself here. There are many for which SR does not apply and against which even end bosses do not (normally) have protection.

Note: this issue of end fights is a bit of a red herring since there are very few where casters actually are the ones counted on for success.

A little confused by your post....sry.

I originally was talking about chars like my Rgr7/Rog4/Wiz5.

Only 5 lvls of Wiz, and Int not maxed.
IMO my char is better off using my spells for buffs....esp Haste and Displacement.

The thread kinda got hyjacked taling about Wiz##/Rog2 chars.

IMO it greatly matters how much you splash/multiclass.

A char with only a few lvls of Wiz is going to have a hard time using offensive spells.
But there are a few that could work.
Evocation spells though usually have saves for half damage and usually do damage based on char lvl.
I used to use Magic Missile on my char for awhile. I could damage most things in the game, but would run out of SP before I did any significant damage.

And when I said beter for buffs, I meant self buffs.
My char can get around 600SP I think, but I find if I try to buff entire parties I have little left over. Plus the fact that my buffs are only 10min buffs.
Works fine when buffing myself, cause I still have SP to do it again, but if I buff the whole party, I will run out to quickly.

Lets talk about a half/half split.

What should a char with 8 lvls in a caster class use for spells?

There are a few that could work well.
Especially if he keeps his casting stat (int?) maxed.
But with only Wiz 8 he will not get to select all the AP Enhancements to increase his Int. Thus he will have less Int that a pure Wizard. And lower save DCs on his spells.
Plus very low chance to get through Spell Resistance.

However, you could build a char with the right feats and stats and enhancements to tweak a lot out of it.
And choose spells that either have no save and/or do not check SR

Hypnotic Pattern, Web, Stinking Cloud would be useful if a multi-classed Wizard had maxed Int and taken Spell Focus feats for example.
I could see a well built char like this actually landing spells in most high lvl dungeons with a decent success rate.

Multi-classed Clerics actually work better. Since people mostly expect heals and don't expect much offensive spell casting.
I haven't checked the Cleric spell list to see what might be possible offensively there.

After re-reading your post, I think I might understand it a little better.
Looks like you think my choice of buff spells is wrong, and are saying I should use spells with no defense.

My particular char gets some SA damage from my rogue lvls. So I try not to get agro first and try to limit any agro I take from as few creatures as I can.
I'm actually very successful at it.

For this reason, I seldom get debuffed....but it does happen.
I need to train myself to not solo attack enemy casters so this will happen less.
I have a tendancy to see a caster not being attacked by anyone else in the party and go after him alone....that's when I get debuffed.

Being able to Haste and Displace yourself whenever you want is very nice.
10min Blur, False Life, Shield(not as good after Gianhold and moderate AC becoming next to useless though)

I do use Teleport, DDoor, Cloudkill, and Solid Fog scrolls regularly. Also Sleet Storm scrolls when the rest of the party can handle it. Used to use Firewall scrolls when they could be bought and when they stacked.

Anyway, I wish there was a way to increase caster lvl with prestige classes.
But we don't have that.

My answer was to focus on spells without saves (buffs).

But there is a way to make a useful offensive multi-classed char IMO.
Just takes a significant investment in casting stats, feats, enhancments, and maybe items.
And even then he will be behind a pure caster.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

It also depends on how far you multiclass - a splash doesn't affect your chances all that much, but going 11/9 would make your choices severely limited.

I can't tell the difference between my 11 cleric / 1 rogue / 1 wizard and my pure clerics, really...sure, a few things may save where they wouldn't otherwise, but it's a minimal difference and the party's melees seem a bit bummed if every single thing is sitting on its arse anyhow.

(that cleric mutt is eventually going to be 11/2/7 BTW, though I'm not sure how much the wiz levels will really matter in the long run...experimental, don't ya know)

What's your chars stats?
I had rolled up two similar chars. Deleted one around lvl 8. The other I never play anymore.

What kinds of spells are you going to use?

I was thinking a self buffing melee type using Divine Power, Haste, Displacment and having evasion.
Plus being able to heal and use all the various cure spells.

But I found that without a full 7 lvls of Cleric and Divine power, I couldn't hit anything lvling my guy up....and I had too few SP to play main healer.

Still think it might be a cool build at cap though.

[Visty]

I was thinking a self buffing melee type using Divine Power, Haste, Displacment and having evasion.
Plus being able to heal and use all the various cure spells.

thats an uber build
got a clr7/wiz7/mnk2 myself and he is a blast to play
buffs i use the most are masters touch, false life, blur, jump, tumble, displace, haste, grease, divine favor/power, firewall, merfolks, fom

and with enough conc opp items and torc its uber