WF Tactical Rogue

[Arovin]

I have been working on this build for a little while now. The focus is tactical combat with Improved Trip and Feint, Stunning Blow and Sap. DPS from sneak attacks. Full ability to take on traps and locks. High UMD. Self healing through UMD and Rogue Mechanic.

DC's should be passable
Trip = (Base) 14 + (Str w/ +6 item and Rage) 9 + (Enhancements) 4 + (Vertigo Item) 10 = 37
Stunning Blow = (Base) 10 + (Str w/ +6 item and Rage) 9 + (Enhancements) 4 + (Weighted Item) 10 = 33
Feint = Not sure how to calculate this but Bluff skill is at 20 without items.
Sap = No DC

AC = 45 with items(Attainable 56 w/ Uncanny Doge and Combat Expertise)
Base HP = 222 Before items and buffs

Important Skills
UMD = (Ranks) 19 + (Skill Boost) 3 + (Circlet) 3 + (Greater Heroism) 4 + (Cha w/ +6 item) 4 + (Luck Item) 2 + (focus) 3 = 38
Disable = (Ranks) 19 + (Skill Boost) 3 + (Item) 13 + (Tools) 7 + (Greater Heroism) 4 + (Int w/ +6 item) 5 + (Luck Item) 2 + (Enchantments) 9 = 62
Search = (Ranks) 19 + (Skill Boost) 3 (Item) 13 + (Greater Heroism) 4 + (Int w/ +6 item) 5 + (Luck Item) 2 + (Enchantments) 4 = 52
Open = (Ranks) 19 + (Skill Boost) 3 + (Item) 13 + (Tools) 7 + (Greater Heroism) 4 + (Dex w/ +6 item) 5 + (Luck Item) 2 + (Enchantments) 9 = 62
Spot = (Ranks) 19 + (Item) 13 + (Greater Heroism) 4 + (Wis w/ +6 item) 2 + (Luck Item) 2 + (Enchantments) 4 = 44

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Level 16 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(1 Fighter \ 3 Paladin \ 12 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 15
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            12                    14
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma             12                    13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               5                     6
Bluff                 5                    21
Concentration         1                     2
Diplomacy             5                    20
Disable Device        6                    30
Haggle                1                     1
Heal                 -2                    -2
Hide                  1                     2
Intimidate            1                     1
Jump                  7                    23
Listen               -2                    -2
Move Silently         1                     2
Open Lock             5                    30
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                6                    12
Search                6                    27
Spot                  2                    23
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      5                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Feint
Enhancement: Rogue Cold Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics III


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Sap
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock III
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

I am not too happy with the 3rd level of Paladin but I think I need it for the enchantment to increase my saves. Once the cap is raised to 20 I will take another increase to STR and the rest of the levels in Rouge. Planning on adding Crippling strikes at 17. Quick draw at 18 for faster weapon, scroll and wand swapping. Skill mastery at 20

Any input to help this build is appreciated. Correct my math if it is wrong. I have not unlocked 32 point builds yet so I am stuck with 28.

[Noctus]

First off:
The general build concept is sound.


But there are several points that can be improved:
- Your AC doesnt reach a high enough level to make a difference. Dont waste resources in keeping it high afther you reach the Gianthold.
- Lower DEX by 4, raise CON by 4. You need the HP.
- Put all your level raise points into one attribute. Spreading them into "cheaper" attribute slots (here: CHA) loweres your overall attribute threshhold.
- Sap is generally found to be not worth the investment, especially when taken so late in a characters career. I´d rather take Power Attack for an extra punch when you are fighting non-high AC monsters.

[Ghoste]

Trip = (Base) 14 + (Str w/ +6 item and Rage) 11 + (Enhancements) 4 + (Vertigo Item) 10 = 39

These numbers do not add up.
With an end game strength of 19, that's a +4. Another +3 from the +6 str item, another +1 from rage. That gives +8, not 11, for a total DC of 36.

[Arovin]

Thanks, you are correct, I added the whole +6 attributes instead of the +3 from the bonus. I fixed it in the original post.

I also changed the level raise for Cha and make it Str. My original reasoning was to keep both attributes even numbers at 20 but with the level cap raise there will probably be +7 items as well so the odd numbers work. That will make my Str 21 and Chr 13 at level 20.

Are the corrected DC's for Trip and Stunning blow going to be effective?

I am still not sure if the +1 saves and AC and immunity to fear is worth the extra level in paladin, I might get by with just 2 levels for the Cha bonus to saves. Then I could take a 2nd fighter for a feat or another rogue.

[Jay203]

wf tactics is only 3 tiers last i checked :P
with similar concept, i'd try going 12/6/2 fighter/rogue/pally or fighter/pally/rogue
this way you can get the powersurge with kensai 2 not to mention with the +2 from having 2 tiers of kensai, then you have paladin bladesworn transformation
then you have access to fighter str, as well as fighter tactics

oh, and avoid using Improved Feint, it's pretty worthless

[Arovin]

wf tactics is only 3 tiers last i checked :P

with similar concept, i'd try going 12/6/2 fighter/rogue/pally or fighter/pally/rogue
this way you can get the powersurge with kensai 2 not to mention with the +2 from having 2 tiers of kensai, then you have paladin bladesworn transformation
then you have access to fighter str, as well as fighter tactics

oh, and avoid using Improved Feint, it's pretty worthless

Yeah I took Fighter trip and stunning blow enhancements 1 to get my total enhancement bonus to 4

As temping as Bladesworm is I would like to stay as pure rogue as possible for skills and sneak attacks. Is Bladesworn only once per rest or on a timer?

Kensai on the other hand might work. I'll have to sacrifice some skills and sneak attack damage, but the +2 DC's and +4 from power surge would be worth it. For now I will work on my build as it is and when mod 9 comes out I might have enough favor for 32 point builds and start over with a focus on fighter.

As for Feint it is AOE and if I solo at all it really adds to my dps on trash mobs, I tested with a human rogue a bunch and enjoyed using it.

Thanks for all the advice.

[Ghoste]

As temping as Bladesworm is I would like to stay as pure rogue as possible for skills and sneak attacks. Is Bladesworn only once per rest or on a timer?

Not with 2 levels of pally, that would only be for boosting saves and fear immunity.

[Arovin]

Not with 2 levels of pally, that would only be for boosting saves and fear immunity.

I know that, but if I was to drop most of my rogue levels and take 6 pally I was wondering how often Bladesworn can be used. I found it in the compendium, it is on a 20 min timer so it does not seem overly useful.

[Jay203]

Not with 2 levels of pally, that would only be for boosting saves and fear immunity.

fear immunity at 3 lvls of pally

and bladesworn is a 1 min clickie with 10 min cooldown xD
i think they're changing it in mod 9 so it's going to be 24 seconds + 6 seconds/spell caster lvl (which, at lvl 6, is still 1 min xD)