Archery gets nerfed EVEN MORE!

[sephiroth1084]

Perhaps the devs overlooked this, or simply don't care, but the transmuting nerf hurts archers more than anyone else. Sure, archers already had a (somewhat) easier time dealing with metal- and metal + alignment-based DR, but they still required a transmuter to deal with DR/bludgeoning and DR/slashing.

Now archers no longer have that option.

So, why don't we get some slashing and bludgeoning arrows introduced? They do exist somewhere in the PnP rules, so we're not going over new territory. But if they do get implemented, please do so across the board. That is, with standard, masterwork, +1-+5 magical, elemental, aligned, sturdy, metal typed, and the other various House D versions!

Perhaps even alter them to apply variant stats:

Slashing - decreases weapon damage die by 2 steps (1d4 for longbows, 1d3 for shortbows), but increase base threat range by 1 (standard bows would have a 19-20, improved to 17-20 with Improved Crit or Keen, while the Silver Bow would be 1d6 18-20/x3).

Bludgeoning - increase weapon damage by 1 step (1d10 for longbows, 1d8 for short), but decrease crit multiplier by 1 step (Silver Bow would be 1d12 19-20/x2).

[sephiroth1084]

Oh, and what's the point of a RoF boost (Ranger 20) when rangers will suddenly have their damage against some monsters cut so much?

[Laith]

what's funny about this nerf is that since transmuting came out there has been exactly ONE reason to pick up a bludgeoning weapon (weighted+stunning blow), and now everyone wants them.

[Kalari]

Yeah my transmuting bow and silver bow were two of my favorites, now I will have to make room for more weapons and hope I dont become burden for carrying a weapon for every occasion now.

Meh enough complaining not like its gonna matter much anyway and ive dinner to cook.

[Slink]

Somewhere I had read a post stating that elemental/alignment based arrows would be available somewhere in the future.
I had neglected to think of this valid point.

Maybe RoF increase is their answer...

*shudder*

[Quanefel]

If I remember correctly, yes there was some blunt arrows in P&P. I can not recall the name of them but they were there. That would be a nice thing to add to the game if the Dev's were up to it.

[RavenBrother]

Haven't used a transmuting bow on my Ranger....in like forever... My +5 Shock longbow of pure good out damages my +1 transmuting longbow of Greater Evil Outsider Bane. No biggie here. Besides... I don't range him except for the 20 seconds of multishot..even then in mele range.... I do more damage with my rapiers.

[feynman]

It's not a nerf, it's a bug fix!

Oh, how the worm turns. It's not so fun when you're on the receiving end, is it? Of course, if some of you weren't hypocrites about nerfs, I might be sympathetic. As it is, you get what you give: Nothing.

[maddmatt70]

Fighters, ironically one of the other hard pressed groups in mod 8 also gets nerfed. Their weapons are based on a specific weapon unlike any of the other classes. This means that if something is dr/slash, dr/pierced, or dr/bludgeon fighters invariably do less damage to it..

[sephiroth1084]

Haven't used a transmuting bow on my Ranger....in like forever... My +5 Shock longbow of pure good out damages my +2 transmuting longbow of Greater Evil Outsider Bane. No biggie here. Besides... I don't range him except for the 20 seconds of multishot..even then in mele range.... I do more damage with my rapiers.

Not talking about the Pit Fiend here. I'm talking about skeletons, zombies, liches, clay golems, etc... All the creatures that require a trait that archery has NO way to replicate.

It's not a nerf, it's a bug fix!

Oh, how the worm turns. It's not so fun when you're on the receiving end, is it? Of course, if some of you weren't hypocrites about nerfs, I might be sympathetic. As it is, you get what you give: Nothing.

Shut it and get out. Honestly, are you going to equate this to the change made to the Minos Legens? Why did they ever allow you to start posting again?

Fighters, ironically one of the other hard pressed groups in mod 8 also gets nerfed. Their weapons are based on a specific weapon unlike any of the other classes. This means that if something is dr/slash, dr/pierced, or dr/bludgeon fighters invariably do less damage to it..

Yup. While I understand the desire to change transmuting (it really invalidated too many other options and was, itself way too powerful), their timing for changing it is really terrible.

[miceelf88]

Would it really be overpowered to scale back the transmuting nerf to include piercing/slashing/blunt?
Aren't those physical qualities in much the same sense that adamantine is?

[Cinwulf]

Not talking about the Pit Fiend here. I'm talking about skeletons, zombies, liches, clay golems, etc... All the creatures that require a trait that archery has NO way to replicate.

I use a +5 transmuting bow on the pit fiend, the combat log says I'm doing slashing damage; at least till mod9...

[Uska]

If I remember correctly, yes there was some blunt arrows in P&P. I can not recall the name of them but they were there. That would be a nice thing to add to the game if the Dev's were up to it.

I think blunt arrows are called farring arrows

[Uska]

Would it really be overpowered to scale back the transmuting nerf to include piercing/slashing/blunt?
Aren't those physical qualities in much the same sense that adamantine is?

while I dont like the change its not the same quality the transmuting is changing the material qualites as in the metal the weapon is composed of not the morphology as in shape the item is.

[Kintro]

My +5 Shock longbow of pure good out damages my +2 transmuting longbow of Greater Evil Outsider Bane.

It does? 2d6+5 vs 3d6+6, the transmuter should win. You could also put Holy arrows in the transmuter for another 2d6.

Anyway, blunt/slashing arrows would be cool! Wish I'd sold my trans/undead bane bow now ...

[The_Phenx]

This may come off silly... but I never understood the whole transmuting bow thing.

Does it really matter what the bow is made of? its the arrow that hits the mob anyway...now transmuting arrows would have made more sense.


I just want exploding arrows.

[Kintro]

Does it really matter what the bow is made of? its the arrow that hits the mob anyway...now transmuting arrows would have made more sense.

Maybe for 250 house D favour? *looks around hopefully for a dev*

[sephiroth1084]

This may come off silly... but I never understood the whole transmuting bow thing.

Does it really matter what the bow is made of? its the arrow that hits the mob anyway...now transmuting arrows would have made more sense.


I just want exploding arrows.

Bows confer their magical properties to their ammo--just as a flaming bow will shoot fire arrows, so too would a transmuting bow shoot trans. arrows.

[Vivanto]

Would it really be overpowered to scale back the transmuting nerf to include piercing/slashing/blunt?
Aren't those physical qualities in much the same sense that adamantine is?

I always considered transmuting to be mainly "re-shaping" the form of your weapon. The edge of a sword can easily become blunt. But to change its material type, now that would need some serious chemical reactions Sounds as stupid as you're making gold out of water.

[Ollathir]

Very sad but good point OP.

There are several unwelcoming changes coming that promise to make the game less enjoyable unless the devs had the forsight to balance others issues, ( I know we'll all see when the mod is released, but I'm leaning towards no). Those that consider transmuting to be broke fail to see it helped balance the game as it stands now w/ regard to combat.

The ability to specialize in a weapon class, slash, pierce etc., or FTR Enh., provided more damage output in combat. (The benefits of killing a mob in 3-5 secs, vs 6-10 secs is self evident when you look at the big picture, less time = less resources. Same for bosses.)

More room in your inventory space, (the amount of items you will need now to balance this oversight will increase).

Ranged combat, like you said, is going to take a hit. The Ranger Capstone now seems as irrelevant as the Rogue Capstone with the WoP, Transmuting Nerf, pulling the Ranger back into the shadows of yesteryear.

In all the Transmuting change promises to make damage less effective when you specialize a wpn. Which means you need to carry more wpns which can clutter your inventory, ( I have problems looting as it is with some of my characters) which can lead to burdoning some, provide longer combat sessions which effect the combatants gear and the casters, healers resources = more grind.
And Rangers... well, like I said.

I don't see how these changes are supposed to be an improvement when you destabilize the mechanics of the game. To balance the coming change we would need more inventory space, (or items that would help unburdon Dex blds), lower spell point cost, more effective arrows/bolts for those hvy reap. (Melees are pretty much hosed with regard to thier gear.)