It's a team game, remember.

[Bracosius]

Why are people on the forums asking for a nerf to thier fellow players on a daily basis?

I just don't get it. If I am in a group I want every member to be as powerful as possible. I don't care if I lead the kill count, I don't care if my armor doesn't look the coolest, I don't care if I can't crit for 800. But apparently many of you are jealous of those who do.

And the canned response is "I am not jealous, it is a game balance issue and I am trying to help the game." I call poppycock.

A game balance issue occurs when one player can't compete with another for reason xyz. Don't you realize we are not competing with each other? We are all in groups on the same team. The more powerful your teammate is the better it is for you. Unless of course your the jealous type, then you may want to come and complain in the forums.

Here is a FAQ to those responding to save me some time:


1. But a group wouldn't let me in because I don't have a WOP.

That group sucks and you would have failed anyway if the leader thinks wops are necessary, be happy you avoided that group.


2. I have a WOP and always lead the kill count, I am not jealous and still think every class needs to be nerfed.

These people are still always going to lead the kill count, they will have the best gear and the best build. They want everyone nerfed because they know something you don't, they will always be more powerful.


3. Turbine makes the game more difficult because of the imbalance of xyz.

It's a game, it will never be perfectly balanced. If a certain build/class is the best, play it. If a weapon is the best, use it. If you don't have it, play more. The people who play the most have the best items. Don't play 30% of the time they do and expect to have the same items.


4. It doesn't follow the pen and paper DnD rules.

I started with first edition way back when, and the most important rule was to have fun. The DM had the freedom to make up anything he wanted to make the game entertaining. Turbine is our DM, let them make it entertainig.


5. I can't find a group because I don't have build xyz and wepon xyz.

It's not your build or your weapons, it's you. People don't like you, that's why you can't find a group. Some of the best players in this game have started some of the strangest builds. They always find groups because no matter what they play they are good and an asset to any party.


6. Your just posting this because your bitter that they changed the paladin capstone.

True, you get a gold star. It sickens me that people whining actually convinced a dev to weaken a class.


7. Brac your wrong because I said so and I post on the forums everyday.

Epic fail, log off life.

[Return_To_Forever]

You goin to the conflux pre-release this saturday? set looks fun!

[Angelus_dead]

I just don't get it. If I am in a group I want every member to be as powerful as possible.

If I am in a group, I want any mob seeing our bard to roll a Fortitude save (DC = Perform +d20) or turn into a platinum statue, which gives you 1d100 plat each time you damage it in melee.

A game balance issue occurs when one player can't compete with another for reason xyz. Don't you realize we are not competing with each other?

Wrong. Incredibly wrong.

I assume I don't need to spend any time explaining why that's wrong...

[Rog]

[

But a group wouldn't let me in because I don't have a WOP.

That group sucks and you would have failed anyway if the leader thinks wops are necessary, be happy you avoided that group.


I have a WOP and always lead the kill count, I am not jealous and still think every class needs to be nerfed.

These people are still always going to lead the kill count, they will have the best gear and the best build. They want everyone nerfed because they know something you don't, they will always be more powerful.




I can't find a group because I don't have build xyz and wepon xyz.

It's not your build or your weapons, it's you. People don't like you, that's why you can't find a group. Some of the best players in this game have started some of the strangest builds. They always find groups because no matter what they play they are good and an asset to any party.



Brac your wrong because I said so and I post on the forums everyday.

Epic fail, log off life.[/QUOTE]

you my friend are preaching to the choir
CAN WE GET A AMEN BROTHER COME ON ALL WE NEED IS A AMEN
THANK GOD O MIGHTLY FOR BLESSING WITH THIS WISDOM FROM ARE ELDERS

lunarsong khyber

[Gunga]

Nice, Brac. Great post, maybe even post of the week.

Although, I'd be able to play more with my team if my team showed up.

Cough, Warhammer. Cough.

Just saying.

[Denssor]

I disagree with just about all of it.

A game balance issue occurs when one player can't compete with another for reason xyz. Don't you realize we are not competing with each other?

Ever hear of PvP?

I have a WOP and always lead the kill count, I am not jealous and still think every class needs to be nerfed.

Of course your not jealous, you have the most powerful weapon in the game.

Turbine makes the game more difficult because of the imbalance of xyz.

It's a game, it will never be perfectly balanced. If a certain build/class is the best, play it.

I should be able to play any class that I want and like to play. Not because it is more powerful than another, but becuase it is fun. All classes should have the same number of pro's and con's as the next class. Damage dealt = damage taken is good place to start balance with melee classes.


I can't find a group because I don't have build xyz and wepon xyz.

It's not your build or your weapons, it's you. People don't like you, that's why you can't find a group.

So this explains why LFM's exclude monks, say "You must have a WoP," say "no n00bs," and my favorite, "Must know quest"?

If they never played with me before, how would they know my monk is "gimped" or not? How would they know if I have WoP's or not? How would they know if I'm a so called "n00b"? Or if I know the quest or not?

You don't need to be a certin build or have certin weapons to complete a quest. Anyone who puts that on thier LFM is probably a gimp themselves and needs those certin things to make him/her look good.

[Bracosius]

You goin to the conflux pre-release this saturday? set looks fun!

You know I am. I checked out the spoiler and am looking forward to it. I am also hitting the Chicago Grand Prix, get to dust off those dual lands.

Nice, Brac. Great post, maybe even post of the week.

Although, I'd be able to play more with my team if my team showed up.

Cough, Warhammer. Cough.

Just saying.

Sorry, I will be back when mod 9 hits, gimp pally and all.

I disagree with just about all of it.

Did you read my FAQ #1? I will go back and number them for easier reading.

[Angelus_dead]

I disagree with just about all of it.

PVP is not the explanation for why DDO characters need to be balanced against each other. Indeed, Turbine has admitted to making no effort at all to balance PVP... to test this, get a pure sorc and see how many pure paladins you can kill at once. 30 or 40 isn't difficult, unless the pallies are specially clever.

No, there's really a different reason characters need to be balanced. Characters don't directly compete with each other, so they don't need to be directly balanced against each other. But player characters do compete against the environment and the monsters found in quests. Different characters need a similar ability to contribute towards completing quests, or else it means that some kinds of characters are (at best) a kind of increased difficulty mode, and (at worst) a waste of developer effort.

Because all characters need to be balanced against the environment, it follows that they need to be balanced against each other. That does not mean they need an equal chance to win PVP duels.

[Aesop]

I actually don't ask for too many nerfs over all... there have been a few though (dwarves bothered me since the outset of this Enhancement System rendition Toughness is now more balanced and I'm relatively happy with that... next )

However I think I'll at least respond to some of this.

Here is a FAQ to those responding to save me some time:


But a group wouldn't let me in because I don't have a WOP.

That group sucks and you would have failed anyway if the leader thinks wops are necessary, be happy you avoided that group.

Yep WoP is Powerful... maybe too powerful relative to the rest. I don't want to Nerf WoP though I want to drop certain Stupid HP mobs down a good 20-30%. I also want the other Stat damage combos to be more effective and work closer to PnP... Mobs reduced to 0 in any stat except Con should be paralyzed


I have a WOP and always lead the kill count, I am not jealous and still think every class needs to be nerfed.

These people are still always going to lead the kill count, they will have the best gear and the best build. They want everyone nerfed because they know something you don't, they will always be more powerful.


Who gives a rats ass about WoP I just want all fighting styles to be made viable so that I don't see 10 twf in a party a cleric and a caster... TWF dominates too much and the other styles should be brought up in effectiveness (though not necessarily match)


Turbine makes the game more difficult because of the imbalance of xyz.

It's a game, it will never be perfectly balanced. If a certain build/class is the best, play it. If a weapon is the best, use it. If you don't have it, play more. The people who play the most have the best items. Don't play 30% of the time they do and expect to have the same items.

Items are too powerful. It creates too much of a disparity between the casual player and the hard core player... I'm somewhere in between myself but I still see the problems that this causes. Turbine needs to be more careful about power creep. If new players can't even apporach effectiveness then it isn't fun for either



It doesn't follow the pen and paper DnD rules.

I started with first edition way back when, and the most important rule was to have fun. The DM had the freedom to make up anything he wanted to make the game entertaining. Turbine is our DM, let them make it entertainig.

As much as I'd like it to stay close to PnP I know that there are aspects that we have to change in order to do them better for the MMO environment. This doesn't mean I want Mobs with a million HP or bazookahs... I just want the game to be as well balanced for all player types as it can be... nothing is perfect but we can do better


I can't find a group because I don't have build xyz and wepon xyz.

It's not your build or your weapons, it's you. People don't like you, that's why you can't find a group. Some of the best players in this game have started some of the strangest builds. They always find groups because no matter what they play they are good and an asset to any party.

true to a degree. We do get a lot of mental deficients that require certain builds... but that falls under the first part


Your just posting this because your bitter that they changed the paladin capstone.

True, you get a gold star. It sickens me that people whining actually convinced a dev to weaken a class.

That class is not weakened. The flavor of the class is being perserved better with the current rendition over the original (imo). I didn't ask for the nerf but I thought about it. I believe it was a touch over powered and I think the new ersion is a bit better


Brac your wrong because I said so and I post on the forums everyday.

Epic fail, log off life.

I'll leave that one alone

Aesop

[Fenrisulven6]

Pretty much everything Aesop said, with one addition: when game balance goes off the rails, the only solution is a campaign wipe. If you hate "nerfs", you're going to really enjoy starting over from scratch.

[Denssor]

PVP is not the explanation for why DDO characters need to be balanced against each other.

Never said it was. I just said it was a place where players compete with other players. Not saying Turbine is going to fix anything about PvP either (don't really care if they do or not).

But adding on from what you said, players like to create new ways to make "uber" characters, balancing is trying to allow more than one class to compete in having the best saves, highest DPS, OR highest AC, but not all of them. When one class gets the best of everything, that class just became more powerful than any other class. Therefore, competion is loss from other classes.

[transtemporal]

If I am in a group, I want any mob seeing our bard to roll a Fortitude save (DC = Perform +d20) or turn into a platinum statue, which gives you 1d100 plat each time you damage it in melee.

/signed

That is fair and balanced because groups don't always have a bard in them.

[Angelus_dead]

I just don't get it. If I am in a group I want every member to be as powerful as possible. I don't care if I lead the kill count, I don't care if my armor doesn't look the coolest, I don't care if I can't crit for 800.

At the end of the day, it's all about results.

Now we've got God on our side, you know what I'm saying? It's the best thing that ever happened to us.

[Return_To_Forever]

At the end of the day, it's all about results.

Now we've got God on our side, you know what I'm saying? It's the best thing that ever happened to us.

oh man, the angel summoner one is hilarious!

[rnor6084]

As a casual player i for one am thankful for those players who do have the uber builds and equipment. That is of course if they are not jerks about being uber and do not treat others as second class players. Quite frankly they pull my non-uber rear through the quests. No nerfs for anyone please.

Far as PvP goes i dont bother with it so it is a non-issue with me.

[ace_mason]

I redisagree.

I disagree with just about all of it.Originally Posted by Bracosius
A game balance issue occurs when one player can't compete with another for reason xyz. Don't you realize we are not competing with each other?

Ever hear of PvP?
Very few peple pvp. You shouldnt balance based off pvp.

I have a WOP and always lead the kill count, I am not jealous and still think every class needs to be nerfed.

Of course your not jealous, you have the most powerful weapon in the game.
And he will still have the most powerful weapons in the game even after they nerf wops.

Turbine makes the game more difficult because of the imbalance of xyz.

It's a game, it will never be perfectly balanced. If a certain build/class is the best, play it.

I should be able to play any class that I want and like to play. Not because it is more powerful than another, but becuase it is fun.
I couldnt agree more with this statement if it is fun play it. If you arent having fun dont play. But dont ***** that your arnet playing it because noone will play with you. Most likely if noone plays with you it is a personality issue. I have run lvl 4 toons through the shroud. And I am not even that nice of a guy.
All classes should have the same number of pro's and con's as the next class. Damage dealt = damage taken is good place to start balance with melee classes.
They do currently. Monks do less damage and take less damage. Barbs do more damage and take more damage. Rangers are somewhat the exception good damage good defense most bang for your buck.

[Impaqt]

Ya know, It just occurred to me....

You can be a Awesome person and get groups all the time... It doesnt matter what weapons ya have or what armor ya have... If your fun to play with, people want you in their group.....

But the only way to get a group if you're a db is to have uber stuff. Some people tolerate db-edness if you have a WoP....

If WoP Gets changed, db's may have a hard time getting groups......

[unionyes]

There are two reasons for asking for nerfs, in my opinion.....and lots of people fall under number 2.

1. The game is unbalanced. There is, actually, an item, skill, or feat that allows some class or type of toon to easily defeat certain quests, mobs, or challenges far too easily or at an inappropriate level. This affects game balance (party vs mobs, not toon vs toon), and in a grand overall sense can damage the game long term as people will repeatedly farm a certain quest using the imbalance. Imagine, if you will, a level 1 ranger with a repeating crossbow of paralyzing banishing smiting. Would skew the quests, and you would see tons of rangers jumping on the wagon.

2. I want you to think that I am sooooo uber that this little advantage is enough for me to pretty much have my way with the game. Example.....a ranger saying we should take away +1 longbows of frost. I do massive dps with a regular crossbow, far more than anyone else in the game. Giving me the extra +1d6 elemental damage makes me virtually God like bwahahahahaha. They are looking for a response along the lines of oh mighty ranger, I need that extra +1d6 damage to survive, so they can come back with you must not be as uber as me because I solo ran tangleroot at level 2 solely because of the extra 1d6 damage. These folks aren't looking for a nerf so much as they are looking to be able to point out how awesome they are without having to name the thread 'Look at how Awesome I am...no really, Look'.

When someone posts a nerf idea that looks to me like a number 2, I just ignore it. To get into a debate with them will just give them a forum to go all uber.

[Snoggy]

Why are people on the forums asking for a nerf to thier fellow players on a daily basis?

Welcome to the internet. It's where people go to argue. Especially gamers.

[Snoggy]

to test this, get a pure sorc and see how many pure paladins you can kill at once. 30 or 40 isn't difficult, unless the pallies are specially clever.

I call shenanigans. Where are you going to find more than ONE pure paladin logged on at any given time? Let alone 30 to 40?