Mod 9 Is The Ranged Character Killer

[Dorian]

What are ranged people getting in Mod 9?

You will see an extra attack for melees at BAB20. Extra attack for TWF tempest rangers. Improved glancing blows for THF fighters and WF. And the list goes on for melee getting better (as it should when you get higher level).

My question is... What will ranged characters get?

You are going to get laughed out of a group if you are a ranger and you start plinking away with a bow. I'm not just talking about rangers, I'm including all classes that want to use a ranged weapon (like that repeater bard, etc).

[Strakeln]

You are going to get laughed out of a group if you are a ranger and you start plinking away with a bow. I'm not just talking about rangers, I'm including all classes that want to use a ranged weapon (like that repeater bard, etc).

They don't already?

[bobbryan2]

You are going to get laughed out of a group if you are a ranger and you start plinking away with a bow. I'm not just talking about rangers, I'm including all classes that want to use a ranged weapon (like that repeater bard, etc).

Well, if those people would put away the bow and pull out a pair of dwarven axes, they wouldn't get laughed out of groups, now would they....

[Turial]

...
My question is... What will ranged characters get?

Unless my theory on capped weapon speed is correct ranged combat will see a slight ROA increase as they typically do each time melee gets an additional attack.

[Dorian]

Unless my theory on capped weapon speed is correct ranged combat will see a slight ROA increase as they typically do each time melee gets an additional attack.

After BAB10... the increased rate of fire for ranged weapons is barely noticeable.

I would like to see rate of fire charts comparing bab10/bab16.

[maddmatt70]

The best change they could make to range combat is stealth increasing the rate of fire. This has nothing to do with prestige enhancements, gear, or anything else...

[Mercules]

Well, if those people would put away the bow and pull out a pair of dwarven axes, they wouldn't get laughed out of groups, now would they....

Funny... I laugh at melee characters chasing casters all over the place swinging futilely because of the messed up moving hit boxes. Precise Shot is so handy for taking out Casters quickly.

[bobbryan2]

Funny... I laugh at melee characters chasing casters all over the place swinging futilely because of the messed up moving hit boxes. Precise Shot is so handy for taking out Casters quickly.

Huh... most casters don't have time to run away from me...

I dunno...

[Brutous]

"Why run? You will just die tired."

"Zig-Zag Running is not going to help you, I have 200 Arrows."

[Raithe]

After BAB10... the increased rate of fire for ranged weapons is barely noticeable.

I would like to see rate of fire charts comparing bab10/bab16.

My unhasted BAB 11 bard fires 42 times per minute. My unhasted BAB 16 ranger fires 54 times per minute. Some of this is due to the rapid shot feat (which apparently does not stack with haste), but that is a very significant difference. The actual difference (not including the feat) is probably around 6 firings a minute, or about a 14% increase.

Lets go over some things about ranged combat that the "uber" people don't seem to know:

1) Repeater ranged builds with very good equipment don't get laughed out of groups. They make everyone else in the group look obsolete. A wounding of puncturing repeater crits on a 17-20 with the improved critical feat, and I believe its firing rate with the right feats is similar to one-handed swinging (don't have a repeater character to test it with, but that was the last I heard).

2) Manyshot on a regular bow user increases the attacks per minute to be similar to two-handed swinging. The burst rate, however, blows most other non-spellpoint DPS out of the water. A double min II khopesh swinging strength-based tempest ranger will top out at around 200 DPS (damage per second) versus favored enemies with a lot of buffs. A tier 3 greensteel bow with manyshot will hit somewhere around 210 DPS, by my calculations, for 20 seconds - but that is against a single target. With improved precise shot it can actually go much, much, higher.

3) Ranged combat is a situational combat style. Everyone should be carrying some type of ranged weapon, if only to throw at ceiling levers. Everyone should also be carrying melee weapons, too. It's just the way D&D is played, and IMO is quite realistic.

If ranged combat were made to be as "viable" as what some people are asking, it would negate the need for melee, almost completely.

[adamr09]

ya they are gonna have to add something really amazing to get ranged combat up to par with endgame melee (which i have been hoping for a LONG time.) hopefully deepwood sniper II and III will be super awesome

[smyter]

My archer is 1 ranger/15 fighter. I did this for the str bonuses and the weapon specialization. I use the fighter feats to get the manyshot, imp precise shot, etc. I would have kept him pure fighter is bow strength was an available feat. I am looking forward to the kenasi line. Nonetheless, I think that mod 9 will not be a ranged character killer. Especially if I get another arrow in my manyshot at BAB 20.

[Mercules]

Huh... most casters don't have time to run away from me...

I dunno...

You mean after you have dodged and hopped over the non-casting mobs, right? Me, I just plunk them the moment I see them no matter what mob is between myself and them. The other nice thing is I will agro them and swing wide from the group or hang back so if they throw Comet Falls or other AoE it doesn't hit the whole group instead of 3 Melee characters charging, in a group at the caster and getting all whacked by a spell.

Or we could just agree you are uber and do things the game engine doesn't make possible like moving through mobs, instantly teleporting to casters, and killing them in one swing.

[Dorian]

My unhasted BAB 11 bard fires 42 times per minute. My unhasted BAB 16 ranger fires 54 times per minute. Some of this is due to the rapid shot feat (which apparently does not stack with haste), but that is a very significant difference. The actual difference (not including the feat) is probably around 6 firings a minute, or about a 14% increase.

Not a good comparison (as you noted) one has rapid shot and one does not.

[Dorian]

ya they are gonna have to add something really amazing to get ranged combat up to par with endgame melee (which i have been hoping for a LONG time.) hopefully deepwood sniper II and III will be super awesome

This is what I DON'T want to see. I would prefer a ranged update that worked fro all classes using a ranged weapon. Not just a ranger with deepwood or arcane archer.

Were not asking to be just as good as melee.... just not so FAR behind.

[NXPlasmid]

I think some shortening of the cooldown timer on multishot would be really nice. Increased ROF would hurt either.

[Raithe]

Not a good comparison (as you noted) one has rapid shot and one does not.

Ok, some more data, just obtained:

1) My bard fires 52 arrows per minute hasted.
2) My ranger fires 58 arrows per minute hasted.
3) My bard with Tensor's and haste fires 58 arrows per minute.

The difference is 6 arrows/minute, or a 14% increase unhasted - 12% w/ haste.

[bobbryan2]

You mean after you have dodged and hopped over the non-casting mobs, right? Me, I just plunk them the moment I see them no matter what mob is between myself and them. The other nice thing is I will agro them and swing wide from the group or hang back so if they throw Comet Falls or other AoE it doesn't hit the whole group instead of 3 Melee characters charging, in a group at the caster and getting all whacked by a spell.

Or we could just agree you are uber and do things the game engine doesn't make possible like moving through mobs, instantly teleporting to casters, and killing them in one swing.

Okay, we can agree I'm uber.

[Baltire]

1) Repeater ranged builds with very good equipment don't get laughed out of groups. They make everyone else in the group look obsolete. A wounding of puncturing repeater crits on a 17-20 with the improved critical feat, and I believe its firing rate with the right feats is similar to one-handed swinging (don't have a repeater character to test it with, but that was the last I heard).

I do have a strictly repeater using build, and can say that atm, in most quests, when I care about kill counts (which is rarely), I can lead them....

Ranged combat has never been bad, people just dont use weapons that will be to their advantage.

A weakening/enfeebling, str sapping, wounding/puncturing and crippling repeater can get you through most encounters.

As for damage, you will never be the highest damage dealer in the party, and if you are, run.

But you can do good damage nonetheless.

A lightning 2 repeater, or an alignment based/greater bane weapon can score some decent numbers.

The problem with most ranged builds is that it takes a great deal of patience to lvl them and even more patience while you get all the gear and weapons you need.

[Turial]

After BAB10... the increased rate of fire for ranged weapons is barely noticeable.

I would like to see rate of fire charts comparing bab10/bab16.

Like I said if my theory is wrong there would be a increase. I'm pretty sure my theory is correct.

BAB 16 = 47 attacks per min
BAB 10 = 40-43 ish (Been awhile since I was level 10)