Mod 8 Review - The Good, the Bad, & The Ugly

[Holgar]

I am not an uber-player, but I am a little above average. I have 3 capped characters, each with a couple Tier II Green Steel Items, and only one who is close to having a Tier III. That should give you an idea of my status: I don't play nonstop but I play more than a "casual" player.

Based on that, here is my assessment of Mod 8. I will focus on the things that I experienced directly.

THE GOOD

1) Stealer of Souls: It seems strange to start at the end, but this is definitely the best part of Mod 8. I ran the Stealer of Souls quest yesterday. Only one player in the group had completed it successfully before, and 4 of us had never stepped foot in it. We won, but it was **** challenging. It required a lot of "on the spot strategy" and teamwork. This was an awesome quest. Another reason this quest was great: no puzzles that involved pulling up an online solver on my laptop! There is one major issue with this quest (and with the Frost Dragon quest) that I discuss below in "the Ugly".

2) Dragontouched Plate Armor: My main character (Holgar) is a 14 Paladin / 2 Fighter. For him the new armor was very welcome (puts my base AC up to 51). The plate armor looks beautiful. My main complaint is that "Fearsome" should NOT be an option, as it is essentially a negative effect on most tanks. Since I got the "Fearsome" effect on my armor, I cannot bring it into quests like the Shroud (except when fighting the Pit Fiend, who is immune) until I get it changed. That much is disappointing, but otherwise this was a welcome change to a non-uber player who could not afford the Dragon Scale Plate Armor (and I didn't like the way it looked either! )

3) New Encounter Areas: I really enjoyed the Mount Reysalon and the Frost Valley the most. Great looks, and able to be overcome by 2-3 non-uber Characters with a modicum of strategy. Note: I only zerged through the Eerie Forest to get to Sorjek, so I have yet to explore that area fully.

4) Using old Encounter Areas: Some have complained about this, but I loved it. I thought it was fun running through the Desert, Gianthold, and Orchard (three great areas). Sure, we were a lot tougher than those areas warranted, but sometimes it's nice to flex your muscles a bit. And you only have to do it once per toon, so I don't see it as any kind of long-term grind. It took an average group about 20 minutes per area to get everyone their gem, and sometimes we were lucky and got them all in like 5 minutes.

5) Korthos Island & the NPE: I got "stuck" in Korthos on the first day, so I had a look around. And I created one test character to run the opening quest, as well. In general, all of this is great. The atmosphere works, the quests are challenging without being too hard, and so on. I think Misery's Peak is a good example of what a "long quest" should be, especially for low level characters.

THE IN-BETWEEN

1) Reaver Raid: I ran the Reaver Raid (as the main tank), and we were able to complete it on Elite. The Raid was boring before, so I was glad some effort was made to make it more of a challenge. However, beefing up Air Elementals does not seem the way to go here. People HATE the Air Elementals because their save DC's are extremely high and therefore they can only be taken out in a few different ways. I think if Turbine lowered the save DC's of the Air Elementals so that melees could engage them, people would not complain so much about this change.

2) Subterrane: I ran this a few times. No special pulls for me, but it gave something for people to do, so I don't see the harm in it. If you can pull +2 tomes every once in a while (didn't see any pulled in my 3 runs), I think that's fine. I think the purpose of this is to lower the cash value of certain items (bloodstone, +2 tomes, etc). I mean, if something is worth 10,000,000 gp (no exaggeration), I think it encourages people to buy from plat farmers, and this may be the reason Turbine has offered this area up for looting. I will be proven wrong if they nerf the chest with today's update.

3) Prey on the Hunter: This quest looked absolutely beautiful. However, I am not a fan of timed quests in general, and the need to find your way through a random maze in a certain amount of time or fail the whole quest is not thrilling for me. For some reason, the timed element of Stealer of Souls didn't bother me, but maybe that's because we completed the quest with 20 minutes to spare, so it didn't seem like the timed element was meant to do anything other than keeping us from wasting time or continuously recalling for mana, etc.

4) The Monastery: I am not a fan of brain-burning puzzle quests (I know many players are), so I did not much enjoy the Monastery. I have heard that you can ignore most of the puzzles, which is cool, but I was kind of mentally overwhelmed the whole time. Perhaps I will enjoy it more if I know how to avoid the puzzles.

THE BAD

1) The Kobold Quest: The end fight in the Kobold Quest is just ridiculous, as others have pointed out. That said, I did enjoy the concept of the fight, so if Turbine fixes it up so that it's doable without evasion tanks (i.e. removes one or two of the ellies, doesn't respawn the living spells), then I think it will be much more fun. As it stood, you needed evasion tanks AND you needed weakening / enfeebling weapons to disable the living spells. I like quests that allow for more creative options.

THE UGLY

1) The Literally Ugly: I saw a lot of people wearing the same ugly armor, and realized that was the Breastplate of Destruction. I would be disappointed if I owned one. There were 2 Warforged in our group who completed Stealer of Souls, and they did not seem pleased with the look of the Dragontouched Docent. Both of these issues will be resolved if Turbine ever lets us customize our armors. I really hope they consider doing so. If anything, it may soon seem a bit funky that all the non-evasion tanks will all be wearing the same looking dragontouched armor!

2) Wounders: This is the biggest problem with my future enjoyment of this game. I am a DPS player. Holgar is built for battling Red & Purple named enemies (there are many in Stealer of Souls, so that may be one reason I enjoyed it). However, the need for wounders is a major problem in DDO that is only going to get worse. The Frost Giants have so many hit points (the trash mobs seem to have at least 2,000+). So you need to smack them many, many times. Making them immune to vorps is fine, but you have now made it impossible to complete Prey on the Hunter without wounders. The last part of the quest is "timed", so you don't have time to beat up all the Frost Giants if you prefer the DPS route. Allowing enemies to be killed in 5 seconds with wounders and puncturers but take 60 seconds with DPS is a major problem, and it is only going to get worse as the game progresses. Stealer of Souls has this problem to a lesser extent because you still need wounders to kill the trash mobs since it's a timed quest. I finally "sold out" and bought a wounder on the AH this weekend because I could see that straight DPS was just not going to work in Prey on the Hunter, and I'm glad I had it for Stealer of Souls.

I think Turbine needs to seriously reduce the hp on mobs, and (sorry to say it) weaken the wounders and puncturers. I think if the high-end mobs had half the hit points and were less susceptible to wounders (perhaps wounders should only have 50% to wound and puncturers should only do 1d3 on a crit), people could have more of a choice of strategy. As it stands now, seeing an enemy go down to wounders in a couple seconds seems way too fast, and watching a DPS machine have to whack away 50 times seems quite a bit too slow. I know many will disagree, but I think this problem is just going to get worse and worse with each new update until it's resolved.

Well, that's where I'm at. I know many will disagree with me on the issue of wounders, but I personally think it will be bad for the future of the game if everyone only uses wounders or vorpals on trash mobs and only pulls out the big guns for the red and purples. If anything, it will lead to more and more red-named enemies (we already see this with Mod 8), which vastly reduces strategies for spellcasters.

Thanks for reading,

Holgar

[MrWizard]

well thought out review..

for prey of the hunter, the giants are pretty easy with a crowd control caster, but without one, I would not be sure other than drawing aggro how to control them too well.

I imagine all the fighter crowd control should work on them (they trip easy, try charming a dog and you will see) plus the enfeeble, weaken, etc..but yea lots of hit points.

I would not go with wounder as it will take forever, Try a 15-20 crit puncturer instead.
My caster had no problem, on normal, Flesh to stone-ing the giants in there, especially the clerics...maybe they wanted to make casters really needed here.

For the kobald fight, I would say there are many many ways to do that...just takes some time thinking about it...

We had done it by pulling them to the hole and just opening it...blasting them...then letting it close. Seems the spray does some damage to them also.
Another time we had a really good ranger hop, skip, and jump around first getting the aggro of most of it while the melees took out the main guy, then worked on the eles.

I think these things are hard or a pain at first until someone figures out a method that is palatable to most players...(then we are all forced to have to do it that way forever)...


Mod 8 seems great, but the direction they have been going, for raiding, just is not fun for me....but I think a large percentage of the player base likes that stuff, so I guess it is just perfect for some.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Thanks for feedback, found it constructive and helpful.

[Holgar]

well thought out review.

Thanks for reading it!

for prey of the hunter, the giants are pretty easy with a crowd control caster, but without one, I would not be sure other than drawing aggro how to control them too well.

I imagine all the fighter crowd control should work on them (they trip easy, try charming a dog and you will see) plus the enfeeble, weaken, etc..but yea lots of hit points.

I did not mind their level of power in general. They actually had trouble hitting my (then) AC of 49 + 3 (barkskin), which really surprised me. It is simply the disparity between wounding/puncturing vs. straight DPS that alarms me at the upper levels.

I would not go with wounder as it will take forever, Try a 15-20 crit puncturer instead.
My caster had no problem, on normal, Flesh to stone-ing the giants in there, especially the clerics...maybe they wanted to make casters really needed here.

Well, I am specc'd out for slashing, so unless I happen to stumble upon a keen rapier of puncturing, I will have to use my wounding of enfeebling longsword to be effective.

For the kobald fight, I would say there are many many ways to do that...just takes some time thinking about it...

We had done it by pulling them to the hole and just opening it...blasting them...then letting it close. Seems the spray does some damage to them also.
Another time we had a really good ranger hop, skip, and jump around first getting the aggro of most of it while the melees took out the main guy, then worked on the eles.

I think these things are hard or a pain at first until someone figures out a method that is palatable to most players...(then we are all forced to have to do it that way forever)....

After two hours, we completed by having our ranger do most of the fighting, and by opening the hole to blast the ellies with polar ray and cone of cold. Bottom line: as a non-DPS tank, my job was to pull a switch a million times. Not fun.

I think the end fight will be fine if it is tweaked a bit. I wouldn't even mind the end Kobold himself being tougher if the living spells didn't respawn. He seemed pretty weak once we finally (after 2 hours) got all the other stuff out of the way.

I like the quests that allow you to defeat them in a variety of ways with a variety of builds. I hate quests that require a specific combination of classes to be overcome.

Mod 8 seems great, but the direction they have been going, for raiding, just is not fun for me....but I think a large percentage of the player base likes that stuff, so I guess it is just perfect for some.

I agree, and I think we need more quests like the side quests in Gianthold (Maze of Madness, Trial by Fire, etc.). Put us up against a tough selection of enemies without a pigeon-holed tactic required at the end.

Holgar

[Holgar]

Thanks for feedback, found it constructive and helpful.

No problem, FlimsyFirewood. Thanks for reading and considering it!

Holgar

[Jefro]

Stuck on khoros is not a bug, you just have to finish the storyline and unfreeze the port by finishing misery peak. Why visit if you are not going to take in the sights


Enter the Kolbold: I enjoyed the puzzle and the fight with the first fire ele the first time can be challenging if someone zerged ahead. The end fight with constant respawning living spells is problem, usually stat influencing attacks or different methods have to keep them away from the party. Mephits and fire eles can be pulled into the hall to be delt with, but alot of care must be taken to not be overhelmed. This fight makes the quest its appropriate level, and best to remember such. Plus this is how a well round party helps, by having that evasion ranger, rogue or monk in party.

Monastery: This is the best quest in the mod, had fun and loved puzzles. But being the puzzle lover guess I have particular basis. The shroud-like puzzle is great as is, lots of people had practice from before, it just harder to let someone take a crack at it for the first time. None of them are impossible, so people should quelch that rumor now

Prey of the Hunter: Can be a tough quest, took few times myself to get hang of it to get to the point to being there while dragon still has between 60%-25%. The chests for choosing to fight the dragons is not worthwhile, though you are breaking your bargain. But maybe put some name loot for evil characters then, or some loot from the dragon's travels perhaps stuff versus mindflayers.

Stealer of Souls: Perfect as is quest, still may have to drink a mana pot or two but is doable as is, so lets hope the devs don't go around changing or breaking it. Though maybe a bigger reward for harder completion is in order, an extra chest is bland, maybe more draconic runes or named loot, like a name item for those not trying to get the dragon armor, like the dex builds.



Khoros island: Just awesome all around for starting out player. But does not show them the necessities of party-play.


The should revise the loot in old raids and quest chains to offer something for monks and more stuff for warforge, there really not many named docents in the game. And I like to see some of the items in the compendium that are not in the game be added

MIA items (items found in the compendium but not in the guide, some might not be in the game)

Armor:
+2 Mithral Chainrobe, +3 Stonemeld Full Plate, Deathstalker Armor (Leather armor), Kelmar's Vest (Studded Leather), Lesser Stonemeld Armor, Lesser Whirlwind Armor, Nargryl's Frypan (Breastplate)

Docents:
Disc of Bladewarding, Granite Sphere

Robes:
Magi Robe

Shields:
Dark Defender, Deneith Protector, SMACK, Whirling Buckler

Weapons:
Beater (Club), Biter (Long Sword), Chieftan's Morningstar, Darksting, Ikaris' Staff, Kelmar's Betrayal (Dagger), Kelmar's Justice (Warhammer), Plague's Fang (dagger), Wraithbane (Heavy Mace)

Everything Else:
Blizzard's Hide, Bone Amulet, Bracers of Magery (Tempest Spine), Clear Fang, Eye of Fire, Flamefang's Hide, Fortified Gauntlets, Golden Bracer, Helm of Detection (Irestone Inlet), Jasper Ring, Oven Mitts, Powder's Hide, Quintus' Sandals, Ruby Ring, Shadestone Necklace, Stormcleave Goggles (Stormcleave), Targath Amulet (Stormcleave), Teralin's Wedding Band (Abandoned Keep), Wightskin Belt, Zeef's Amulet

[Holgar]

Stuck on khoros is not a bug, you just have to finish the storyline and unfreeze the port by finishing misery peak. Why visit if you are not going to take in the sights

Well, I don't mind keeping new characters there until they complete Misery's Peak. But it seems silly to trap a level 16 character in newbie land just for taking a peek. However, I think this issue has been resolved with the update a couple days ago, so no biggie.

Enter the Kolbold: I enjoyed the puzzle and the fight with the first fire ele the first time can be challenging if someone zerged ahead. The end fight with constant respawning living spells is problem, usually stat influencing attacks or different methods have to keep them away from the party. Mephits and fire eles can be pulled into the hall to be delt with, but alot of care must be taken to not be overhelmed. This fight makes the quest its appropriate level, and best to remember such. Plus this is how a well round party helps, by having that evasion ranger, rogue or monk in party.

True enough. Except I'm not sure that you CAN complete it without an evasion tank. That's the part that bothers me.

Holgar

[ArkoHighStar]

Stuck on khoros is not a bug, you just have to finish the storyline and unfreeze the port by finishing misery peak. Why visit if you are not going to take in the sights


Enter the Kolbold: I enjoyed the puzzle and the fight with the first fire ele the first time can be challenging if someone zerged ahead. The end fight with constant respawning living spells is problem, usually stat influencing attacks or different methods have to keep them away from the party. Mephits and fire eles can be pulled into the hall to be delt with, but alot of care must be taken to not be overhelmed. This fight makes the quest its appropriate level, and best to remember such. Plus this is how a well round party helps, by having that evasion ranger, rogue or monk in party.

Actually it was aknown issue that brought the servers down for a patch, basically any character who was created before Korthos and then went to visit Korthos was stuck there unless a caster came and greater teleported you out or a GM helped you out

[Jefro]

I did not have that trouble, I went there to do misery peak and collaborator for favor. Though had a teleport mask just incase.




Another bad thing is runes do not stack, but if you swap editrich, tempest ect runes in a chest they stack.

really dislike my ingredient bag filling up! Gems not stacking also sucks.

[Tyrande]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTS the giants and still saved quite a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

[Tyrande]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTS the giants and still saved quite a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

Also, aren't spell casters have innate spell craft skills that will detect the nature of the spells themselves and hence have higher spell save DCs against living spells and spells casted? I found this to be the case in NWN2. Spell Craft of 40 = +8 save DCs against spells and with base reflex save, spell casters should save against spells more often than other characters who are not wielders of magic.

[ArkoHighStar]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTM the giants and still saved quiet a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

solo the quell, the beholder needs to be triggered so you do not have to deal with them. Unless you are trying to solo the giant raid leader, its just easier to look for the wolf and break the portal and then recall to get your gem. Want to get the giants use enervation then flesh to stone

[Tyrande]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTM the giants and still saved quiet a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

Also, aren't spell casters have innate spell craft skills that will detect the nature of the spells themselves and hence have higher spell save DCs against living spells and spells casted? I found this to be the case in NWN2. Spell Craft of 40 = +8 save DCs against spells and with base saves, spell casters should save against spells more often than other characters who are not wielders of magic.

[Gadget2775]

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

Prep the area outside the door with acid fogs, then let the DS out...It might take a bit if you haven't put anything into acid mastery; but it will work and you can solo it with a caster that way.

As a thought if you don't have the acid line; drop some of the crit improvements for fire.

[Tyrande]

Prep the area outside the door with acid fogs, then let the DS out...It might take a bit if you haven't put anything into acid mastery; but it will work and you can solo it with a caster that way.

As a thought if you don't have the acid line; drop some of the crit improvements for fire.

That character is a sorceress. i.e., We usually DO NOT PICK acid fog. The wizards cast acid fog. Are you saying we should swap out a level 6 spell, pay the 104,000 gold just for this one monster!?

[Tyrande]

Prep the area outside the door with acid fogs, then let the DS out...It might take a bit if you haven't put anything into acid mastery; but it will work and you can solo it with a caster that way.

As a thought if you don't have the acid line; drop some of the crit improvements for fire.

That character is a sorceress. i.e., We usually DO NOT PICK acid fog. The wizards cast acid fog. Are you saying we should swap out a level 6 spell, pay the 104,000 gold just for this one monster!?

If there is a feat called "Elemental Admixture" implemented which let you cast a spell of any element based on any spell you know, like wall of fire becomes wall of acid... that may be able to help or should I just roll a warforged wizard starting with a level of rogue!?!

[ArkoHighStar]

That character is a sorceress. i.e., We usually DO NOT PICK acid fog. The wizards cast acid fog. Are you saying we should swap out a level 6 spell, pay the 104,000 gold just for this one monster!?

My sorcerer has acid fog and has acid/lightning enhancements, plus all the fire/ice enhancements

[Tyrande]

My sorcerer has acid fog and has acid/lightning enhancements, plus all the fire/ice enhancements

My sorceress go for all the spell penetration enhancements and specialized in high DCs and high spell penetration and heightened spell. i.e. As for damage, she has mostly fire and ice enhancements and those spells with empower and maximize. She does have lightning spells, but skip the acid spells as they are pretty weak. If there is a spell like vitrolic sphere, I may consider revising.

As of right now, the quests and monsters themselves are too restrictive and demands a certain build.

[Gadget2775]

That character is a sorceress. i.e., We usually DO NOT PICK acid fog. The wizards cast acid fog. Are you saying we should swap out a level 6 spell, pay the 104,000 gold just for this one monster!?

If there is a feat called "Elemental Admixture" implemented which let you cast a spell of any element based on any spell you know, like wall of fire becomes wall of acid... that may be able to help or should I just roll a warforged wizard starting with a level of rogue!?!

I'm saying if you want to solo it then swap for the Acid Fog.

If you don't want to swap the spell you'll have to...

• group with other players
• not farm the Doom Spheres chest
• come up with your own alternative solution

Just because someone chooses to play a Sorcerer (Read inferior caster ) who prefers to solo doesn't mean the devs should modify an encounter created for a group.

Last thoughts; there are three rares in that area. All of them are able to drop the Gem. One of them is even a named Quell...Is that critter unfare to Clerics in the game? (My answer is no, cause other players love partying with Clerics )

[Merkinsal]

Seriously though, I do not like the high end contents of module 8.

Flesh to Stone on the Frost Giant clerics and raiders? Yeah, my sorceress has a 38 charisma and a transmutation focus sceptre and using heightened metamagic and still does not FTM the giants and still saved quiet a lot. The 38 charisma can't go any higher unless the loot goddess of Eberron smiled on a +3 or +4 charisma tome and of course complete the Abbott.

A doom sphere (undead beholder) that is immune to fire and is not dispellable?! I found this monster terribly unbalanced for arcane casters and favor the clerics and tier III lightning strike weapon players. How do I get the gem from this area without a group? As Holgar mentioned above, I am not a powergamer, but still got some items from playing a little more than casual.

I think a big reason I am enjoying the new content so much is that I have had to adapt and change the way I play my caster. I went back and picked up enervation which works great with the giants. Charm spells can be a great way to use the mephits as fireball shields. Enfeeblement and Exhasustion are great equalizers for the living spells. Debuffs, Charms, Crowd Control, Instakill, Buffs, and so on are all there and play a part and because if this, strategy and tactics now play a much greater part of the game. Even geared out gamers now have to think a bit to do well in the new quests. Not nearly as much run and swing, run and swing, cast the same spells the same way and rinse and repeat.

I hear somone say they had to change weapons. I hear someone say some different weapons are more usefull, other than dps or wps. I hear someone say different tactics by melee work well. I hear someone say some of the mobs are not vulnerable to the same effects. I think this is all good.

If the new mod meant simply more of the same in a different dungeon, that would have been disappointing. I can see I have a long, long way to go to become successful in these new quests on hard or elite and that has been something I have not experienced in a long time.