4.0 is weaksauce

[Aspenor]

Since the DDO forums are dead and boring, I surfed over to the WotC site to do some 4.0 research.

The more I read about this "edition," the more I dislike it.

Please, please, PLEASE Turbine be very judicious when considering alterations to DDO gameplay based off the 4.0 ruleset. The magic system is IMO broken beyond all belief in 4.0. Character uniqueness is virtually shot, and all classes seem to be pigeonholed into classic MMO roles, rather than allowing for the player to choose how they want their character to function.

Still giving this one a big thumbs DOWN. I get that they wanted to streamline the ruleset for online gameplay, but the abomination they've come up with is nearly offensive to my roleplaying tastes.

[Grimdiegn]

I agree with ASP?

[Dexxaan]

If what you say is so.....class blending into one big Vanilla Mush..... I´m gonna form a new MMO and contact GURPS.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

I know nothing about 4.0 other than its version 4.0, but Asps post makes me hate it with a fiery passion....

[totmacher]

****, I'd love to form up a pnp group to get this going... if even to try it out...

guess I could, have to be people from DDO

[Andoir]

I wanted to like 4.0 really bad. After pouring through all 3 books, I've come to the conclusion that "yep, I'm sure of it...I hate it".

[Rune_Darkfire]

I agree about 10000% with the OP.

4.0 is not a roleplaying game anymore.

It's a CRPG put onto paper.

[Justicar]

I wanted to like 4.0 really bad. After pouring through all 3 books, I've come to the conclusion that "yep, I'm sure of it...I hate it".

I told you so!

[Andoir]

I agree about 10000% with the OP.

4.0 is not a roleplaying game anymore.

It's a CRPG put onto paper.

Yeah, it is. The players are gonna have to have Pokemon trading cards to remember all of their At-Will Powers, Encounter Powers, Daily Exploits, Action Points...etc.

The DM will have a brain aneurysm by the 2nd random encounter.

[Andoir]

I told you so!

Yeah, I know you did. I am currently buying every 3.5 book I can find on the net before they all vanish.

[adamkatt]

Weaksauce?? Is that like mild salsa?

[sirgog]

Since the DDO forums are dead and boring, I surfed over to the WotC site to do some 4.0 research.

The more I read about this "edition," the more I dislike it.

Please, please, PLEASE Turbine be very judicious when considering alterations to DDO gameplay based off the 4.0 ruleset. The magic system is IMO broken beyond all belief in 4.0. Character uniqueness is virtually shot, and all classes seem to be pigeonholed into classic MMO roles, rather than allowing for the player to choose how they want their character to function.

Still giving this one a big thumbs DOWN. I get that they wanted to streamline the ruleset for online gameplay, but the abomination they've come up with is nearly offensive to my roleplaying tastes.

Dead right.

There is, IMO, only two good things about V4.0 - one is that it's easier for the DM to invent new effects that the players cannot replicate (such as dungeon areas that confer particular penalties to non-believers in a certain god, etc). In 3.5, the only way to do this within the rules is to either use spells like Unhallow (which provide pretty set effects) or to use Wish/Miracle if you want to have a different effect to Unhallow - and relying on an enemy casting Wish isn't good for a campaign of level 13 or lower. The other good thing about 4.0 is the nerfing of save-or-die effects.

But that's it - the rest of the system looks like a big steaming turd.

[Astria]

I think Something Awful summarizes 4th edition best.

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news...ragons-4th.php


also, after discovering that 4e dragons have to roll to hit with breath weapons and fear auras...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ator635394.jpg

[Kreaper]

Weaksauce?? Is that like mild salsa?

No. More like very watered down soy sauce.

[Angelus_dead]

Please, please, PLEASE Turbine be very judicious when considering alterations to DDO gameplay based off the 4.0 ruleset. The magic system is IMO broken beyond all belief in 4.0.

That is completely backwards. The D&D 3.x magic system is broken, and 4th edition's is far far better. However, the worst parts of 3rd ed magic are so far absent from DDO (Polymorph, Fly, Gate, Superior Invisibility, Astral Projection, Craft Wonderous Item...), so this point is less important.

Still giving this one a big thumbs DOWN. I get that they wanted to streamline the ruleset for online gameplay, but the abomination they've come up with is nearly offensive to my roleplaying tastes.

That is completely backwards. The 4th edition rules are streamlined to be managable for offline gameplay. They're made to be useable without a whole ton of bookkeeping. That is a design goal unimportant to a computer-adjucated system like DDO, so it is a factor against adapting it to this game.

Aside from them, the biggest reason to avoid changing DDO to 4th edition are:
1. It's a major change, and Turbine has so-far been barely able to make minor changes (not even a skill respec)
2. 4th edition is even more strongly turn-based than 3rd, and it also relies more on repositioning and ambivalent attacks.

[Aspenor]

That is completely backwards. The D&D 3.x magic system is broken, and 4th edition's is far far better. However, the worst parts of 3rd ed magic are so far absent from DDO (Polymorph, Fly, Gate, Superior Invisibility, Astral Projection, Craft Wonderous Item...), so this point is less important.


That is completely backwards. The 4th edition rules are streamlined to be managable for offline gameplay. They're made to be useable without a whole ton of bookkeeping. That is a design goal unimportant to a computer-adjucated system like DDO, so it is a factor against adapting it to this game.

Aside from them, the biggest reason to avoid changing DDO to 4th edition are:
1. It's a major change, and Turbine has so-far been barely able to make minor changes (not even a skill respec)
2. 4th edition is even more strongly turn-based than 3rd, and it also relies more on repositioning and ambivalent attacks.

As always, you're entitled to your opinions, and I am entitled to mine.

What you see as broken and what I see as broken will not always line up. It's just the nature of being a human being.

[maddmatt70]

That is completely backwards. The D&D 3.x magic system is broken, and 4th edition's is far far better. However, the worst parts of 3rd ed magic are so far absent from DDO (Polymorph, Fly, Gate, Superior Invisibility, Astral Projection, Craft Wonderous Item...), so this point is less important.


That is completely backwards. The 4th edition rules are streamlined to be managable for offline gameplay. They're made to be useable without a whole ton of bookkeeping. That is a design goal unimportant to a computer-adjucated system like DDO, so it is a factor against adapting it to this game.

Aside from them, the biggest reason to avoid changing DDO to 4th edition are:
1. It's a major change, and Turbine has so-far been barely able to make minor changes (not even a skill respec)
2. 4th edition is even more strongly turn-based than 3rd, and it also relies more on repositioning and ambivalent attacks.

4.0 is boring. 3.5 may have been too complex for some people out there, but I was never bored with 3.5. All the classes are the same in 4.0 - they have very similar abilities now.

[Memnir]

I'm still reserving my final judgment on 4e till I actually get a group going to try it out.
However after reading the books, I can't say I am (nor the players in my campaign) in any rush to hurry up and finish our adventure arc to give it a shot. I think we've all said something along the lines of, "Well, I'll play it once to see how it runs - but it really looks like it sucks," more than once.

[Astria]

As always, you're entitled to your opinions, and I am entitled to mine.

What you see as broken and what I see as broken will not always line up. It's just the nature of being a human being.

Brokenness in regular D&D is easily countered by a creative DM :-).

[Angelus_dead]

As always, you're entitled to your opinions, and I am entitled to mine.

It's not a matter of opinion- there are testable facts that you are simply stating wrong. In addition, your various statements suggest a high degree of ignorance as to what the D&D 4th edition rules even are, and also to the problems with the 3rd edition rules, which are numerous and well-documented.

Simple test: Have you READ the 4th edition rules?