So is a transmuter really better than SOS against Big Red?

[Strumpoo]

Just wondering for all those number crunchers out there..

On a 16 barb which would be better? I can't seem to decide.

I alternate between a +3 transmuting great axe of pure good and the SOS.

Now, I do love that all red damage numbers on the axe, but that 13-20 crit range on the SOS keeps calling to me.

Just wondering if the transmuter is really outdamaging the SOS?

The average damage on the transmuter seems to be around 45-55 a swing plus pure good effects. Crits are somewhere in the 160-175 range on average + pure good effects.

The SOS seems to hit normally for 35-45 damage and the crits hit for around 135-155. And it crits a LOT! 13-20 is a big difference from 17-20 on the axe.

So any number crunchers know the answers or want to do the calculation numbers?

[Blazer]

Not a big number cruncher myself, but I would think given that huge crit range advantage, the SOS will win out vs the greataxe, on normal anyway when his DR is lowest. Hard/Elite you'll be better served with the transmuter as his DR climbs, however. Also need to keep in mind the swing speed of the axe (faster) vs the SOS (slower), especially if you're taking all 5 swings in your chain.

[tihocan]

The axe wins.

[Angelus_dead]

Just wondering for all those number crunchers out there..

On a 16 barb which would be better? I can't seem to decide.

I alternate between a +3 transmuting great axe of pure good and the SOS.

Yes, a transmuter is normally better than SOS against Arraetrikos (although maybe a weak transmuter is not better). There are two reasons for this.
1. Fortification: Arraetrikos has 50% Fortification, so the critical hit advantage SOS normally enjoys over other weapons is only half as important.
2. DR: SOS cannot penetrate Arraetrikos's Damage Reduction (15 normal), so your Glancing Blows will be reduced almost to zero.

The Glancing Blows issue becomes more important if your barb has the THF feats (which he should have if he uses greataxes). Also if you're a dwarf, that's another damage bonus for the axe.

The more interesting question is if an SOS is better than a transmuter against Suulomades. He may have 0% Fortification, which makes the SOS relatively better. Is that enough better to put it over the top? I'm not sure, and the answer partly depends on the exact DR involved. With so many other monsters in that raid it's been difficult for me to count the DR.

[Darth_Sizzle]

Two general rules to live by for anyone who wants to do DPS:

1. The 1st # is always the most important one.

2. You want the 1# to be Red.

The Greataxe wins.




Tip #2,003,982: If you make a Mineral II weapon; you can get rid of all other (non-greensteel) DPS weapons in your inventory.

[Angelus_dead]

1. The 1st # is always the most important one.
2. You want the 1# to be Red.
The Greataxe wins.

More often than not, the Sword of Shadows will beat the DPS of other random weapons that happen to penetrate DR (especially if the other weapons only have 2x crits). Barbarians have enough strength that they can blow through typical DR 5 or 10 without caring. Arraetrikos is a special case where the SOS is not so good.

[Strumpoo]

Two general rules to live by for anyone who wants to do DPS:

1. The 1st # is always the most important one.

2. You want the 1# to be Red.

The Greataxe wins.

Tip #2,003,982: If you make a Mineral II weapon; you can get rid of all other (non-greensteel) DPS weapons in your inventory.

Good points guys..


Yeah, the mineral II weapons are nice, I just don't make them because I like the cool effects on the other weapons. Transmuting is sooo boring compared to a cool lightning strike, disintigrate, crushing wave etc...


I am not so sure on the red damage number being that important. I wish we had a damage calulator to verfiy this (please devs), but I am thinking that the 40% crit chance vs 20% keeps the SOS right there, if not slightly ahead of this transmuter.

That is why we need a numbers crunching type in this thread!

If the transmuter averages about 10-15 more per "regular" hit and about 20-40 more on crits but only crits half the time, I just don't know if it can outdistance the superior crit range on the SOS..... It would take 3-5 regular hits to make up for one crit on the SOS..

One or two (sometimes even 3-4 in a row!) 150 point crits on the SOS sure takes a lot of catching up from the transmuter.

I haven't noticed too much interference from his fortification, not on Normal difficulties anyway. I am sure the increasing DR on Hard/Elite would definitely put the Transmuter ahead.

[Citymorg]

It has been my experience, and it is only annecdotal since I haven't kept track of every hit I've made, that my +3 Transmuting Greataxe of Shattermantle (and yes that suffix is important for 2 reasons, 1. I am not doing any more damage from it, 2. casters get a benefit when debuffing and damaging him) does more damage than my SoS. This is exactly as the OP said, I tend to to about 10-15pts less damage on base hits and 15-20pts of damage less on crits. With the 50% SoS does not crit enough where the greataxe would not to make up the difference. Remember, you are going to be critting on a 17 with the axe. Yes, you will crit more with the SoS than you would with the axe, but the difference is not enough to make SoS better.

Also, remember this against one specific raid boss. Short of a Mineral II Greatsword or Axe, SoS will out damage almost everything in the game.

[Bronko]

Two general rules to live by for anyone who wants to do DPS:

1. The 1st # is always the most important one.

2. You want the 1# to be Red.

The Greataxe wins.

Tip #2,003,982: If you make a Mineral II weapon; you can get rid of all other (non-greensteel) DPS weapons in your inventory.

Close. You want that first number to be purple.

But at a minimum red. The greataxe still wins.

[GlassCannon]

I use a +1 Holy Burst Silver Greataxe on the beast, and still feel like I am not churning out the numbers I ought to be.

No matter what you use, be sure that everyone is using something to get past his DR.

If you are dishing higher yellow numbers more often with the SoS than you are with a +3 transmuter, use that instead(but I doubt you are).

[Blazer]

Isn't that 50% fort that people are discussing only on hard? I was under the impression he was sitting at only 25% fort on normal, 50% on hard, and 100% on elite.

[captain1z]

Isn't that 50% fort that people are discussing only on hard? I was under the impression he was sitting at only 25% fort on normal, 50% on hard, and 100% on elite.

No....... the 50% fort is on Normal. Ive seen it in my combat logs for sure. It worked out perfectly once when I had 8 crits in combat log and 4 resisted on rolls some of which were higher than other confirmed crits. I figured it was 50% and later someone confirmed that for me.......... on normal. I dont think Ive ever run hard........... yet.

[Blazer]

No....... the 50% fort is on Normal. Ive seen it in my combat logs for sure. It worked out perfectly once when I had 8 crits in combat log and 4 resisted on rolls some of which were higher than other confirmed crits. I figured it was 50% and later someone confirmed that for me.......... on normal. I dont think Ive ever run hard........... yet.

Ok, thanks. I guess I've been luckier than average when meleeing him as I tend to see a good deal of crits, even with that 50% fort on normal. I know it went way down on hard, so I guess that's about 75% fort. Too bad we can't get the combat log to export to a file, rather than just simply lose anything that's not still in the window at the time, it would be a fun exercise to see the full sets of attacks from beginning of combat to end.

[nakedfatguy]

Isn't that 50% fort that people are discussing only on hard? I was under the impression he was sitting at only 25% fort on normal, 50% on hard, and 100% on elite.

pretty sure its 50% across the board. If it does go up, its definetly not 100% on elite because i was critting him.

[Yabba]

SoS is sooooo yesterday.

[Aranticus]

conditions L16 barb, PA active, non damage enhancements, bard song +6, crits auto confirmed, variable: str bonus 0 - 20

this is with 0% fort


this is with 50% fort


result? the +3 transmuting greataxe is better than SoS

why? DR15

[Blazer]

pretty sure its 50% across the board. If it does go up, its definetly not 100% on elite because i was critting him.

I was just relying on what folks had said earlier when the mod came out initially (mostly going by numbers Shade had estimated). So if it's 50% across the board, that's good to know. Does his DR go up significantly with difficulty too? I had seen numbers approximating 15/30/60 for N/H/E.

[Aranticus]

I was just relying on what folks had said earlier when the mod came out initially (mostly going by numbers Shade had estimated). So if it's 50% across the board, that's good to know. Does his DR go up significantly with difficulty too? I had seen numbers approximating 15/30/60 for N/H/E.

yes dr is 15/30/60

[Borror0]

Of course it also excludes the glancing blows pushing the Transmuter DPS even higher?

[Aranticus]

Of course it also excludes the glancing blows pushing the Transmuter DPS even higher?

yeap a THF specced player is going to get like 3-4 glancing blows every attack sequence for 20-30 each