Criticizing auction house prices is silly.

[JayDubya]

I see a lot of complaints about "out of control" AH prices and so forth. I've seen claims that "plat farmers" are responsible for the high prices. I've seen various suggestions around capping or otherwise "controlling" the auction house prices in order to "fix it". I've seen people claim that Plat Farmers "bid up" prices in the AH.

Frankly, these suggestions/ideas bewilder me.

First, Plat Farmers aren't responsible for the high price of items on the AH. Buyers are. Because apparently (some) buyers are willing to pay those prices. As long as there are buyers with money to spend, sellers will try to get every penny they can. If the sellers price their items too high, no one buys them, and the seller pays a transaction cost.

Second, if you try to control the auction house to ensure "reasonable" prices (essentially creating price controls), every interesting item will stop being posted on the auction house - and will show up on the forums instead. Case in point - Wounding of Puncturing items. Now, imagine that no more +6 stat items, no more vorpals/disruptors/paralyzers/smiters/etc, no more holy of pure good/silver bows, no more mithral shields or full plate, etc, etc on the AH. Many, many items are simply far more valuable than others of the same minimum level. (Anarchic Burst Handwraps of slowburst vs. vorpal battleaxe of righteousness)

Third, unless the platfamers are responsible for half the items on the AH, they can't reasonably create artificial shortages for very long. Let me give you an example:

Let's assume there are 100 vorpals that drop on every server on a given day. 5 of those are picked up by plat farmers, the other 95 by regular players. Each player decides for themselves what they would like to receive for the vorpal... let's say they want 100k plat on average for their vorpals, and they set up auctions with a 100k buyout.

The platfarmers, however, want the price to be a million. But they can't make the price a million if there are vorpals out there for 100k. So they have to buy up 95 vorpals at a total price of 9.5 million. So now, they put vorpals back on the market at 1 million. Now, will someone buy some of these vorpals? Probably, but not that many people have 1 million plat lying around, and most of those who do probably don't need vorpals. Maybe they sell 10 of them. So they make 500k plat in profit on that first day.

The second day, another 100 vorpals drop. But this time, some of the people who sold one the day before noticed that their 100k buyout went quickly. So some decide to go for a 200k buyout - let's say the average ends up being 150k. So now the plat farmers have to spend ~14.5 million, and they sell 10, for a loss of 4.5 million.

And the third day, other people notice the rapid buyouts at 150k, and go for 200, etc. In essence, the plat farmers can't control the price because they can't control the supply. Unless they pick up more than half the good items every single day, the farmers can't ever make enough in profits to cover their expenses in creating artificial shortages.

In summation - the prices are an elaborate dance between buyers who want to pay as little as possible, and sellers who want to make as much as possible. If the prices are high, it is because buyers are willing to pay those high prices, otherwise the sellers won't be able to sell them, and will have to lower their prices instead. The auction house works fine as it is.

[Impaqt]

/Well Said.

Most of the popel that complain about high auction prices are reletively new to the game. They either dont understand why some items are worth so much or they just cannot comprehend how easy it is to amass significant hordes or plat.

[MissErres]

There's a lot that's getting out of hand, mostly ppl complaining about STUPID stuff.

[In_Like_Flynn]

DDO has a pretty good economy.

[moorewr]

JayDubya=smarter than most economists.

[Kingfish]

The auction house works fine as it is.

/agreed

I pull a LOT of 20 packs of +5 Arrows. Holy, Slaying, Bane, Shock, Acid...you name it, i get them...odd since I am on my sorc mostly, anyway...

I started putting them on the AH at 100pp buyouts and they were instantly grabbed up...next batch, I jumped to 500pp and to my surprise, same response. I continued to bump the price and it wasn't until I hit the 2000pp per stack that they stopped selling...1000 gp per arrow? Wow!!! But to ensure a quick sell I always put them at 1500pp and they are always gone within a day.

That’s about 100x what I could get from them at a vendor and the price is driven by the market. Thats how its suppose to be.

[Sue_Dark]

/Well Said.

Most of the popel that complain about high auction prices are reletively new to the game. They either dont understand why some items are worth so much or they just cannot comprehend how easy it is to amass significant hordes or plat.

Yes, somewhat true, but also somewhat false.

How can one justify a totally goofy bid/buy-out on an obviously flawed item? I've seen (just this weekend) a keen scimmy of disruption on the AH for 20million buyout. Trying to say that the keen makes it better is rediculous, IIRC it was a L14 item. Anyone intent on buying a ML 14 scimmy most likely already has imp crit (or is planning to take soon) so keen is worthless, not to mention disruption being an on-hit effect.

I get a good laugh almost every day going to the AH. someone thinks their item is totally sweet and posts it at some seriously crazy price thinking it'll sell (+3 frost burst daxe of pure good i think it was for 7million, please!). Meanwhile I love people who think about their postings (or screw up in some cases) like whomever posted the +3 shocking burst/enfeebling and +2 vorp scimmy's I picked up for just under 50k plat total, last week.

Dont forget.... another huge drawback to massing plat is the total fear of running a quest with a non-optimal group. Yes, some are better with optimized groups, but most content can be run by any combination of character classes, they just might need to use a little more caution or thought to achieve the same results.

[Rindalathar]

I feel some of the complaining might stem from what I call "aggravated window shopper syndrome". You know what you need. It's right there staring at you, but the price makes it unobtainable. This may lead to frustation and anger as you feel helpless to the system. Since this is a game and not real life, it's accentuated because we're all supposed to be having fun and pay monthly for the priviledge of trying to do so. Staring at gear you want, but can't afford it not fun. Some may feel it'd be having to pay to go to work, etc.

I also think the AH works fine, so I'm not surprised by some who feel it doesn't. I realize that something like buying plat may change the situation here, but it's an unfortunate reality of MMOs and one that companies like Turbine are painfully aware of.

Putting artificial price controls in place who not help the economy. Like others already stated, you drive the economy to a strict bartering system for the best items, which is what we had in place before the AH. It makes for a bumpier economy, since plat takes a back seat and exchanges only take place when there is a perfect match between players and their items.

As a side note, this is where being a member of a good guild comes into place, since many guilds share their items amongst themselves. If the auction house isn't your bag, maybe getting into a good guild is.

[scampb]

I think the AH is fine as well. I get good deals and give good deals. I just missed out on a +2 Frost Burst DAxe of Pure Good for 100K GOLD yesterday (for my level 7 Barb). Don't know if it sold or if the buyer cancelled but it said 3 days remaining and when i clicked the buyout it and it told me it was no longer available blah blah blah..... darn, I was so close.

My 7yo son likes the AH too. Tried to sell some gems his level 4 Barb had for a couple million GP's the other day. LOL. Had to explain how that works. I wish someone had of bought them for no other reason than to assume some kid posted it.....that would have been funny!

[Impaqt]

Yeah, I saw that Keen Scimmy too... But to attribute that to Plat Farmers is just Silly. THats just a Totally CLueless person. Not even a plat farmer would try tomilk the market that much.

[ArkoHighStar]

The only thing that annoys me about the the AH is lowbie items without a buyout, with a 3 day auction. Usually the price is reasonable and I would be willing to pay a small premium to buyout, but instead it sits there and I refuse to waste plat on it as I will probably level past it and it is no longer useful. I am not sure what people are thinking because they are always there 3 days later unsold.

[Bladededge123]

Complaining about poeple complaining about the auction house. The points you raise are valid enough, but can't really be claimed as fact. Does it make sense that the extreme prices are -all- plat farmers? No, of course not. But plat farmers can and do I'd guess use the AH for various purpose. Its next to impossible to prove a negative, and given the only poeple who would have direct experience with how Plat farmers operate won't be posting details on these forums, any ideas on how they do things end up being opinions/best guesses.

AH prices -are- ridiculous. But that is because the poeple who fuel the economy are willing to be so. If Your willing to buy an item for an insane amount of plat, well then that might be ridiculous, but your certainly entitled to do so. So long as poeple are, then poeple will sell them for silly prices. Might be silly on a common sense point of view, but this is a game, altruism doesn't exist, theres no intrinsic benefit for selling an item on the AH for a price that new/non grind style players can afford, so theres little reason to do so. (Such generosity is usually reserved for guildies or the like :P

The basis for being unhappy with AH prices is valid. It, like the dislike of the faults poeple find with the AH, is opinion. There is little point in arguing. Either we get 'The AH posts are too high' or "Poeple who complain about the AH are silly' which results in sparking the same arguement, which gets no one anywhere. No one is going to convince anyone else of anything in the vast majority of cases and such threads either die out because everything that would be said, already has been, or devolve into insulting the other poeple based on who they are, as opposed to the validity of their arguments. (You don't have any money, so of course you complain, or You have a great deal of money so this isn't a problem that effects you, so you have no right to complain about me complain, and ect)

Best to just drop it and move on.

[JacknCoke]

You all are wrong.

Its a government conspiracy to control your minds and make you want to buy overpriced gas and lime jello.

[Uska]

/Well Said.

Most of the popel that complain about high auction prices are reletively new to the game. They either dont understand why some items are worth so much or they just cannot comprehend how easy it is to amass significant hordes or plat.

Wrong on both accounts I hate the prices and have been here since the start and I have never had more then 200k pp it costs a bit to be a cleric, yes it might be easy to horde a lot of plat if you have lots of time to play. The price on the AH are insane but I dont think there should be artifical controls on it I just dont buy as there is really no item you have to have to be able to play, have fun and be an effective party member. and no item is worth 20 million gold

[Allistair]

The only thing that annoys me about the the AH is lowbie items without a buyout, with a 3 day auction. Usually the price is reasonable and I would be willing to pay a small premium to buyout, but instead it sits there and I refuse to waste plat on it as I will probably level past it and it is no longer useful. I am not sure what people are thinking because they are always there 3 days later unsold.

/QFT

When bringing up a new toon I'll often check the AH for some twink gear and be willing to pay REASONABLY marked up prices.
For example that Belt of lesser false life that you put up for 50 plat will sit there for the three days, but If you had a buyout,
I'd have given you 1k Plat just for the convenience and the fact that I wanted it right now.

Remember people, "Buyout" is your friend. The AH is full of impulse shoppers. We want it, and we want it NOW!.
You lose nothing by putting a buyout and may even sell some stuff you normally wouldn't.

We were running the VoNs last week on Level 7 alts. So we're going over what we need and someone says "Everyone got a Pink weapon?"
Well sure enough there were a couple of people checking out the AH and saying "None had a buy out"
Impulse buy that would have sold if you had just put a buyout.
Something to remember next time you check your mail to find Auction Expired.

[Sue_Dark]

Yeah, I saw that Keen Scimmy too... But to attribute that to Plat Farmers is just Silly. THats just a Totally CLueless person. Not even a plat farmer would try tomilk the market that much.

Heh, agreed.

[Sue_Dark]

/QFT

When bringing up a new toon I'll often check the AH for some twink gear and be willing to pay REASONABLY marked up prices.
For example that Belt of lesser false life that you put up for 50 plat will sit there for the three days, but If you had a buyout,
I'd have given you 1k Plat just for the convenience and the fact that I wanted it right now.

Remember people, "Buyout" is your friend. The AH is full of impulse shoppers. We want it, and we want it NOW!.
You lose nothing by putting a buyout and may even sell some stuff you normally wouldn't.

We were running the VoNs last week on Level 7 alts. So we're going over what we need and someone says "Everyone got a Pink weapon?"
Well sure enough there were a couple of people checking out the AH and saying "None had a buy out"
Impulse buy that would have sold if you had just put a buyout.
Something to remember next time you check your mail to find Auction Expired.

Yeah, I totally hate it when you realize you *need* a piece of gear for a quest and look in houses D/K and cant find it, so you resort to the AH only to find the item with no buyout or an insane buyout. I can see a ring of feathers going for a decent price since it's no level and a ring, but then you see right next to it the ML 15 feather falling ring of dump your money here for some ungodly price, cause its a ff ring! (please realize that this is an example) If the add-on doesnt make sense or isnt useful, then people shouldnt bump the price just cause my ff ring has +20 buger picking skill. I dont care about your buger picking skill, cause you didnt put anything in it at creation or since and thus +20 = +0, not to mention, there is likely someone who is a professional at buger pickery and why on earth would I want to choose your ring over their profession? <getting ranty and derailed, sry>

Buyouts are your friend and every time a new person (or new AH user) asks me anything about the AH I simply tell em that the value of their item is subjective. What you see might be gold, but everyone else on the server could see it as pooh. Be reasonable in the pricing. Let the starting bid of a general item default and set a top end that you personally would be willing to pay. Which in many cases would be a decent but not insane price, tho some are willing to pay more than they have for something they really dont need.

[ArkoHighStar]

Wrong on both accounts I hate the prices and have been here since the start and I have never had more then 200k pp it costs a bit to be a cleric, yes it might be easy to horde a lot of plat if you have lots of time to play. The price on the AH are insane but I dont think there should be artifical controls on it I just dont buy as there is really no item you have to have to be able to play, have fun and be an effective party member. and no item is worth 20 million gold

the only really insane items are the hardest to get named items or rare items like +5 MFP, or complete sets of scales etc. Most other things have reasonable prices most ofthe time. Sure you will find the yahoo who think he can get a million plat for a +1 paralyser, but thoe things sit there unsold 95% of the time. In reality the only time you see people making a killing is on the grinding items like scales, tome pieces, shield pieces and the most recent must have item large ingredients. Put one of those up at the right time and you could strike it rich. I remember getting a million plat for one scale just after mod 4 came out, why because people wanted to complete their scale armors and did not want to grind the tor for that last scale, same with ingredients, now they can esily fetch 100k plat because people are still building tier 3 weapons. But as items become more common place their price goes down accordingly. The best aexample I can find is Supperior Potency 6 items, which prior to mod 6 were extremely rare and could fetch very high prices, now they fetch between 10 and 30k plat on the AH because they drop so often in the shroud.

[GeneralDiomedes]

First, Plat Farmers aren't responsible for the high price of items on the AH. Buyers are. Because apparently (some) buyers are willing to pay those prices. As long as there are buyers with money to spend, sellers will try to get every penny they can. If the sellers price their items too high, no one buys them, and the seller pays a transaction cost.

Yes they are. Plat farmers are the equivalent of printing money. The result is called inflation.

[ArkoHighStar]

Yeah, I totally hate it when you realize you *need* a piece of gear for a quest and look in houses D/K and cant find it, so you resort to the AH only to find the item with no buyout or an insane buyout. I can see a ring of feathers going for a decent price since it's no level and a ring, but then you see right next to it the ML 15 feather falling ring of dump your money here for some ungodly price, cause its a ff ring! (please realize that this is an example) If the add-on doesnt make sense or isnt useful, then people shouldnt bump the price just cause my ff ring has +20 buger picking skill. I dont care about your buger picking skill, cause you didnt put anything in it at creation or since and thus +20 = +0, not to mention, there is likely someone who is a professional at buger pickery and why on earth would I want to choose your ring over their profession? <getting ranty and derailed, sry>

Buyouts are your friend and every time a new person (or new AH user) asks me anything about the AH I simply tell em that the value of their item is subjective. What you see might be gold, but everyone else on the server could see it as pooh. Be reasonable in the pricing. Let the starting bid of a general item default and set a top end that you personally would be willing to pay. Which in many cases would be a decent but not insane price, tho some are willing to pay more than they have for something they really dont need.

I imagine with crafting taht a lot of the junk combos will find a home in the ccrusher, so that only items with the one good attribute or good dual attribute combos will find their way onto the AH, or at least the numbers will be reduced.