Shishkabob Samurai-A build by Request

[spifflove]

Ok this is a strength based two weapon fighter drow requested by Spiritwolf. He wanted drow and wanted khopesh. Since drow are powerful in rapier, shortswords, dex, charisma, and intelligence I decided to play to their strengths.

Shishkabob Samurai: A skewering, slashing mob blender

Purpose: To achieve the maximum dps possible in the game and continue to provide a counter culture to the Dorf establishment.

Race: Drow (28 points)
2 Ranger/2 Paladin/10 fighter
Str 16 (10 points +3 levels +enhancements) = 22 (+6 item = 28)
dex 17 (7 points +3 enhancements) =20 (+6 item = 26)
Con 12 (6 points)
Intel 10
Wis 08
Char 16 (5 points plus 1 enhancement) = 17 (+5 item =22)

Feats:
1: Weapon focus Slashing, Favored enemy undead
2: Two weapon fighting, Rapid shot
3: Power Attack
4: Divine Grace
5: Exotic Weapon pro: Khopesh
6: Weapon focus Piercing, Improved Two weapon fighting
8: Improved Critical Piercing
9: Improved Critical Slashing
10: Weapon specialization piericing or stun
11: Greater Weapon focus Piercing, Greater two weapon fighting
14: Greater Weapon focus Slashing

Required Enhancements:
Elf shortsword/rapier attack I and II
Elf shortword/rapier damage I and II
Elf enchantment save line
Elf dexterity line
Ranger dexterity I and Paladin char I
Fighter Strenght III
Fighter Critical Accuracy IV
Fighter Action Boost II


Saves
+3 to all saves divine grace
+3 to all saves Plus 5-6 charisma item
+5 to all saves Eye of Kypher
+11 bonus to all saves total.

Now the good part:

Attack RApier : Khopesh
+14 bab
+9 strength
+2 Elf : +0 Khopesh
+5 Weapon
-4 Dual wielding Rapiers : Khopesh
+2 Greater Weapon focus
+28 total : +26 Khopesh
(+32 if using a +5 one handed Rapier)

Damage non crit

Rapier
3.5 base (1d6)
+5 weapon
+ 9 strength
+5 Power Attack
+3.5 energy (1d6)
+2 Elf
28 total non crit

damage critical
7 base (1d6x2)
+10 weapon (5x2)
+ 18strength (9x2)
+10 Power Attack (5x2)
+3.5 energy (1d6)
4 elf (2x2)
52.5 total average critical

So 80% x 28= 25.4 plus 20% critting 52.5(13) = 38.4 x7 attacks =
234 per round average damage

Khopesh
4.5 base (1d8)
+5 weapon
+ 9 strength
+5 Power Attack
+3.5 energy (1d6)
37 total non crit

damage critical
13.5 base (1d8x3)
+15weapon (5x3)
+ 27 strength (9x3)
+15 Power Attack (5x3)
+3.5 energy (1d6)
74 total average critical

So 90% x 37= 33.3 plus 10% critting 74 (7.4) = 40 x7 attacks =
240 per round average damage

No matter how you slice and dice it that is some serious damage. When you throw in bard buffs you become better than a two handed ax barbarian. You won't live up to the sword of shadows but the more you buff the more you outdistance your two handed counterparts.

[Girevik]

....Since drow are powerful in rapier, shortswords, dex, charisma, and intelligence I decided to play to their strengths.
...
Required Enhancements:
Elf Longsword/rapier attack I and II
Elf Longsword/rapier damage I and II

I know you know you made this build a Drow, and I know you know Drow get Shortswords and Rapiers, so you probably want to edit your enhancements.

[spifflove]

Its not the length its what you do with it.

[WolfSpirit]

I like it Spiff, look good.
Any thoughts/points, good or bad, about replacing Ranger with Rogue and getting UMD to work?

[spifflove]

Well thats the way I would go because paladin saves plus evasion = uber but this will come at a cost of one feat.

I also like a workable rogue so I take intel at the expense of con but everytime I post a build like that I get flamed. A plus 1 dex tome will free up 2 stat points for intel.

[Girevik]

Race: Drow (28 points)
2 Ranger/2 Paladin/10 fighter
Str 16 (10 points +3 levels +enhancements) = 22 (+6 item = 28)
dex 17 (7 points +3 enhancements) =20 (+6 item = 26)
Con 12 (6 points)
Intel 10
Wis 08
Char 16 (5 points plus 1 enhancement) = 17 (+5 item =22)

I don't understand your stat layout.

10 points on Str for a 16. I understand.
7 points on Dex I don't understand. You can spend 6 and you can spend 8, but you can't spend 7. It costs 8 for a 17.
6 on Con. Check.
0 on Int and Wis. Check and Check.
5 points on Char gets you a 15, it takes 6 points for a 16.

10+8+6=24. That only leaves 4 for Charisma.

If I missed something, let me know.

[spifflove]

I don't understand your stat layout.

10 points on Str for a 16. I understand.
7 points on Dex I don't understand. You can spend 6 and you can spend 8, but you can't spend 7. It costs 8 for a 17.
6 on Con. Check.
0 on Int and Wis. Check and Check.
5 points on Char gets you a 15, it takes 6 points for a 16.

10+8+6=24. That only leaves 4 for Charisma.

If I missed something, let me know.

Drow are Magic baby!

[QuantumFX]

It's too bad your your original requestor was hellbent on sabotaging the build. A 32pt elf would be more effective as a peircing/slashing TWF damage dealer.

[sigtrent]

It's too bad your your original requestor was hellbent on sabotaging the build. A 32pt elf would be more effective as a peircing/slashing TWF damage dealer.

How so Quantum? Generaly speaking the drow are a bit more optimal unless you are dumping charisma and or int.

If he were going with longswords I can see that but with kopesh.. I'm not seing much of an advantage with an Elf beyond hair color.

[Girevik]

Drow are Magic baby!

There is that.

Or, maybe you were thinking of using a Dex+1 Tome in there somewhere prior to selecting Improved Two Weapon Fighting.

And as for an Evasion and UMD version, I was playing around with one this afternoon with the Character Builder. It's not a perfect fit, since it is a pure Rapiers and Shortsword version, but here is how that worked out:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Lawful Good Drow Female
(10 Fighter \ 2 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 232
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 15
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 14)
Strength             15                    23
Dexterity            17                    20
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    17

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 14)
Balance               5                    11
Bluff                 3                     3
Concentration         1                     1
Diplomacy             3                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     3
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     5
Intimidate            3                     3
Jump                  6                    19
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         3                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                n/a                   6
Use Magic Device      n/a                  23

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I

Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of Vulkoor
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I

Level 5 (Rogue)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I

Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

Level 8 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II

Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

[spifflove]

In that case I would get a dex tome and free up 2 more points for intelligence. Also moving a point of charisma to strength and making it up with the enhancement is adviseable.

[QuantumFX]

How so Quantum? Generaly speaking the drow are a bit more optimal unless you are dumping charisma and or int.

If he were going with longswords I can see that but with kopesh.. I'm not seing much of an advantage with an Elf beyond hair color.

You have more build point to dump into actual fighting stats. Since CE didn't make it into the build you have 2 points lost to int. Also a 16 CHA is overkill.

Also I meant to imply that Kopesh is a waste of time for a Drow/Elf. (Yes I understand it was part of the requestor's master plan but just look at your numbers.) Rapiers in the hands of a Drow/Elf is more powerful because of the enhancements available. (You should take the feat that you dumped into Kopesh and put it into Weapon Specialization: Slashing though.) Also most of the stuff that has a resistance to peircing isn't affected by crits so that spiffy x3 modifier gets wasted unless it's a bursting weapon vs. a vulnerable creature. This is where the elf with 2 levels of pally gets more powerful. +3 to hit and +2 damage.

There should also be a consideration for a human in the build. (Just claim to be a half drow) Since the build focuses on DPS the Mod 5 Human Versatility can either to how often the character hits or how hard he hits. (And it can affect UMD/saves as well.)

Something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Lawful Good Human Male
(9 Fighter \ 3 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 226
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 16
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 14)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 14)
Balance               5                    18
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate            2                     3
Jump                  3                     7
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      4                    20

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Paladin)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical

Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 7 (Rogue)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack

Level 11 (Fighter)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Rogue)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

[Shade]

Purpose: To achieve the maximum dps possible in the game and continue to provide a counter culture to the Dorf establishment.
...
Str 16 (10 points +3 levels +enhancements) = 22 (+6 item = 28)

Failed. "Maximum" is kinda the key word there isn't it? 18 is maximum guy.

No matter how you slice and dice it that is some serious damage. When you throw in bard buffs you become better than a two handed ax barbarian.

Sorry but no you don't. TWF are miles behind THF barbarians. Especially freaking triple classed ones. Everyone who actually plays the game and is reasonably skilled know that as a truth. Just so many forum noobs put together these made up numbers and think oh well there thats better, but no, face facts, it isn't.

TWF is a slow combat style, sure it gets lots of hits during its slow spin attack weird ***-are-you-trying-to-dance-combo-anim, but its still slower animations and lower DPS.

[spifflove]

Failed. "Maximum" is kinda the key word there isn't it? 18 is maximum guy.


Sorry but no you don't. TWF are miles behind THF barbarians. Especially freaking triple classed ones. Everyone who actually plays the game and is reasonably skilled know that as a truth. Just so many forum noobs put together these made up numbers and think oh well there thats better, but no, face facts, it isn't.

TWF is a slow combat style, sure it gets lots of hits during its slow spin attack weird ***-are-you-trying-to-dance-combo-anim, but its still slower animations and lower DPS.

Well if I gave the build more strength then you would flame it for not having enough con /shrug. This is a build on request. The Retribution ranger is the build I actually play and was possibly the inspiration for the resurgance of the elf. Sorry Shade not everyone has to be a dorf. For one thing they look like potatos in mithril bp.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=116674

If you go to the above thread all the numbers are worked out. In the end, the more you buff the more the two hander outshines the one hander. Why? Because x amount of buff times 7 is greater than x amount of buff x 4 as x gets infinitely large.

Shade, go fight Jellybean. Demand to use +5 plain jane weapons. But go fight him. I am not saying its time to put up or shut up but if you really want to end this debate that is the way to do it.

[Shade]

Im not flaming your build randomly.
Im saying you made some false claims like several other ppl that are just silly.

Ive said it before, but your numbers are all completely made up and prove nothing nor bring up any debate, the debate died nearly a year ago, people just keep bring up the same silly numbers.

Like these ones, I particularly like:
Rapier
3.5 base (1d6)
+5 weapon
+ 9 strength
+5 Power Attack
+3.5 energy (1d6)
36 total non crit
So 3.5 +5 +9 +5 +3.5 = 36. And your numbers prove it all? lol.

Your other thread has just as skewed and made up numbers dude, no one realy cares if you cant quite add correctly, its not a big deal. Im not good at math either. Even if these were right, your still not factoring in half the stuff that counts in DDO - IE attack speed (TWF is a fair bit slower, its not 7 attacks per 4 attack duh...), Glancing blows, etc, etc.

And I don't need to fight some noob to prove anything because I already have to hundreds of people, my reputation on my server shows that and really could care less about what some random from another server thinks.

And with plain +5 weapons it isn't even a fight, thats just obvious. There much better skilled TWF players I group with all the time on my server, and they don't pretend to think there DPS is as high as a two handed. They usualy use special efffect weapons like vorpals and such because thats the advantage of TWF, a bit more hits, not more DPS.

[sigtrent]

You have more build point to dump into actual fighting stats. Since CE didn't make it into the build you have 2 points lost to int. Also a 16 CHA is overkill.

This one is Spiff's build but thanks for the explination. I do tend to go with humans when I make Kopesh builds, although I did do a Kopesh drow for the request as well. A bit different than this one but thats good, its nice to get different perspectives on the same basic idea.

[loki523]

Shade, go fight Jellybean. Demand to use +5 plain jane weapons. But go fight him. I am not saying its time to put up or shut up but if you really want to end this debate that is the way to do it.

A few simple truths:

DPS is NOT "where it's at".

Wounding of Puncturing is "where it's at".

Jellybean will outkill Shade on any quest.

My ranger, Jealousy, will outkill Shade on any quest.

Shade won't take the challenge. We've both invited him to come to Risia and get embarassed and he just ignores us. Pretty obvious that he'd like to keep blowing hot wind about how he has this great rep on his server (although I haven't seen anyone from his server saying the same) that proves his build is a great killer but there's no way he's going to actually try to prove it against either of us because he knows he's wrong.

The following is not necessarily truth but it's my honest opinion:

Someday, DPS will make a comeback. Wounding of Puncturing has straight up destroyed DPS since day one. I don't think the devs intend for this to continue indefinately. There are a lot of ways for them to nerf Wounding of Puncturing. In Mod 5, for example, the vast majority of the mobs are undead and immune to it. On elite (and many times on normal) the mobs have to roll a 1 to be disrupted. DPS technically trumps Wounding of Puncturing in Mod 5 but, then again, these mobs can't be critted and a good, strength-based, dual wielder will just about always beat Shade here too.

IMO, Shade's doing the smart thing by ignoring us now. Maybe when the level cap gets pushed to 18 or 20 he can come back and say, "Ok where are you at now Jellybean?"

[spifflove]

Im not flaming your build randomly.
Im saying you made some false claims like several other ppl that are just silly.

Ive said it before, but your numbers are all completely made up and prove nothing nor bring up any debate, the debate died nearly a year ago, people just keep bring up the same silly numbers.

Like these ones, I particularly like:
Rapier
3.5 base (1d6)
+5 weapon
+ 9 strength
+5 Power Attack
+3.5 energy (1d6)
36 total non crit
So 3.5 +5 +9 +5 +3.5 = 36. And your numbers prove it all? lol.
.

Here are the corrected numbers

Damage non crit

Rapier
3.5 base (1d6)
+5 weapon
+ 9 strength
+5 Power Attack
+3.5 energy (1d6)
+2 Elf
28 total non crit

damage critical
7 base (1d6x2)
+10 weapon (5x2)
+ 18strength (9x2)
+10 Power Attack (5x2)
+3.5 energy (1d6)
4 elf (2x2)
52.5 total average critical

So 80% x 28= 25.4 plus 20% critting 52.5(13) = 38.4 x7 attacks =
234 per round average damage [dropping the .4 this is the exact same number as before]

So you see Shade I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Your other thread has just as skewed and made up numbers dude, no one realy cares if you cant quite add correctly, its not a big deal. Im not good at math either. Even if these were right, your still not factoring in half the stuff that counts in DDO - IE attack speed (TWF is a fair bit slower, its not 7 attacks per 4 attack duh...), Glancing blows, etc, etc.
.

Those might eventually get fixed, along with dwarven toughness and one other prominent enhancement that I dare not mention. [what really needs to be fixed is the twf animation]

And I don't need to fight some noob to prove anything because I already have to hundreds of people, my reputation on my server shows that and really could care less about what some random from another server thinks.
.

Do you hear what they are saying about you on the other thread? They said you were asked to put up or shut up and you shut up.

And with plain +5 weapons it isn't even a fight, thats just obvious. There much better skilled TWF players I group with all the time on my server, and they don't pretend to think there DPS is as high as a two handed. They usualy use special efffect weapons like vorpals and such because thats the advantage of TWF, a bit more hits, not more DPS.

You do not have the authority to deny the return of the elf, Shade.