Lamannia Update 59 Preview 1 Feedback: Diplomatic Impunity

[Cordovan]

Please provide your feedback after running Diplomatic Impunity on Lamannia during this preview here! Find the release notes on the Lamannia forums.

[Wdh]

I want my wildmen back. Bullywugs are funny but the wildmen are apart of classic DDO.

[Bolo_Grubb]

why replace the wild men? Just curious

[LeoLionxxx]

Indeed, why replace the wildmen?

Is it about cultural sensitivity for killing people native to an area? Concerns about players not wanting to kill things that look human? Wanting the green-skinned bullywugs to blend in with the landscape?

The wildmen feel like an iconic part of this question. I'd hate to see them go!

[Steelstar]

why replace the wild men? Just curious

As we were updating Diplomatic Impunity for u59 and needed to update all of the monsters anyway, we decided to move forward with replacing the Wildmen in this dungeon. We have not yet replaced Wildmen in other parts of the game, but we intend to do so in the future. DDO's Wildmen enemies are problematic on several levels, and while this could and probably should have been taken care of years ago, we're replacing them now that we have an opportunity to re-focus on this content.

Wildmen and the depiction of them in DDO are not tied to a specific pen-and-paper D&D monster to begin with, giving even less reason for them to remain. As for why Bullywugs as the replacement, we determined that they were a fitting replacement in this dungeon that would cause minimal need to rework the story and other elements that would be difficult to change as part of this Update's revamp.

[MathisMagic]

As we were updating Diplomatic Impunity for u59 and needed to update all of the monsters anyway, we decided to move forward with replacing the Wildmen in this dungeon. We have not yet replaced Wildmen in other parts of the game, but we intend to do so in the future. DDO's Wildmen enemies are problematic on several levels, and while this could and probably should have been taken care of years ago, we're replacing them now that we have an opportunity to re-focus on this content.

Wildmen and the depiction of them in DDO are not tied to a specific pen-and-paper D&D monster to begin with, giving even less reason for them to remain. As for why Bullywugs as the replacement, we determined that they were a fitting replacement in this dungeon that would cause minimal need to rework the story and other elements that would be difficult to change as part of this Update's revamp.

That makes a lot of sense. The wildmen have always made me somewhat uncomfortable. It's not a bad idea to slowly work them out as long as your already updating stuff with them in it.

[Aelonwy]

Unpopular opinion but I like the bullywug change. The only place I've liked having wildmen is Restless Isles where we save them from the ogres and Illithid slave-masters. Also the graphics for wildmen are just lame. I'm not sure but they've always looked like wights reskinned in monkey-suits to me, cheap ones from Spirit Halloween.

So ALL wildmen will eventually be replaced?

Where else are they in the game besides Restless Isles and Ataraxia? Against the Demon Queen. The island in Inspired Quarter. Uhm Storm the Beaches... am I missing anything?

Storm the Beaches could be replaced by anything... Lizardfolk, Yuan-ti or Bullywugs... might need to replace the wolves with something that might live side-by-side with these monstrous-humanoids.
Ataraxia? Something that lives on a beach, in caves. Could put Sauhaugin here.
Restless Isles... I liked them here, fit with the ogres. Maybe goblins?
ADQ? Fit with Monkey Crest, idk how this will change to be appropriate. I think I would change the crest to something else entirely and while I was in there change the Trogs for the snake crest to Yuan-ti.
Mining For Ancient Secrets... any enslaved humanoids? drones and automatons mining? Constructs could be cool.

[MathisMagic]

So ALL wildmen will eventually be replaced?

Where else are they in the game besides Restless Isles and Ataraxia? Against the Demon Queen. The island in Inspired Quarter. Uhm Storm the Beaches... am I missing anything?

Storm the Beaches could be replaced by anything... Lizardfolk, Yuan-ti or Bullywugs... might need to replace the wolves with something that might live side-by-side with these monstrous-humanoids.
Ataraxia? Something that lives on a beach, in caves. Could put Sauhaugin here.
Restless Isles... I liked them here, fit with the ogres. Maybe goblins?
ADQ? Fit with Monkey Crest, idk how this will change to be appropriate. I think I would change the crest to something else entirely and while I was in there change the Trogs for the snake crest to Yuan-ti.
Mining For Ancient Secrets... any enslaved humanoids? drones and automatons mining? Constructs could be cool.

I like these ideas!

I think there are a lot of enslaved wildmen in various quests, like in the dreaming dark for instance. They're in boxes in genesis point too. Replace them with hobgoblins or something, they don't really have a story point there I don't think.

The mongrelfolk in Ravenloft are technically also wildmen, but I'd argue that that's the location where they're the least offensive, given the whole point of them in the story... so they may be skipped. But I'd love to see them come up with something new for that bit.

[Mindos]

DDO's Wildmen enemies are problematic

What else in DDO is problematic? If you had unlimited time and money, what else would you change?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_man

[Madja]

While I still don't really understand the change I'm fine with either. Wasn't attached to the wildmen in any way. I mean I think they're sweet, but if some people have issues with them for some reason then that's okay. I do think you have to have a bit of a warped mind to find any sort of racist undertone to them if that's the implication.

Will the mongrelfolk also be replaced in the future?

[Duhboy]

As we were updating Diplomatic Impunity for u59 and needed to update all of the monsters anyway, we decided to move forward with replacing the Wildmen in this dungeon. We have not yet replaced Wildmen in other parts of the game, but we intend to do so in the future. DDO's Wildmen enemies are problematic on several levels, and while this could and probably should have been taken care of years ago, we're replacing them now that we have an opportunity to re-focus on this content.

Wildmen and the depiction of them in DDO are not tied to a specific pen-and-paper D&D monster to begin with, giving even less reason for them to remain. As for why Bullywugs as the replacement, we determined that they were a fitting replacement in this dungeon that would cause minimal need to rework the story and other elements that would be difficult to change as part of this Update's revamp.

Pretty sure wild men are in 5E.

[Mindos]

Will the mongrelfolk also be replaced in the future?

https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/516216

I brought the vistani up in the past.

[Dreppo]

DDO's Wildmen enemies are problematic on several levels

Can you elaborate on the problems?

[Bolo_Grubb]

As we were updating Diplomatic Impunity for u59 and needed to update all of the monsters anyway, we decided to move forward with replacing the Wildmen in this dungeon. We have not yet replaced Wildmen in other parts of the game, but we intend to do so in the future. DDO's Wildmen enemies are problematic on several levels, and while this could and probably should have been taken care of years ago, we're replacing them now that we have an opportunity to re-focus on this content.

Wildmen and the depiction of them in DDO are not tied to a specific pen-and-paper D&D monster to begin with, giving even less reason for them to remain. As for why Bullywugs as the replacement, we determined that they were a fitting replacement in this dungeon that would cause minimal need to rework the story and other elements that would be difficult to change as part of this Update's revamp.

Thank you

[droid327]

As a person of French heritage, I find bullywugs to be highly problematic too :P

I'm against this rationale. This feels like abishai and tanar'ri all over again...a solution to what isn't really a problem, and something most D&D fans agree wasn't good for the brand. And sets a bad precedent for the game too - I mean do we want to start talking about the issues with halflings? Especially Talenta halflings? Do we want to start talking about the Vistani? The Orientalist tropes in Menechtarun? Just seems like this is not the can of worms you devs need to open right now...

[droid327]

https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/516216

I brought the vistani up in the past.

Heh and the devs quickly closed that discussion as being inappropriate for DDO

[Wdh]

As we were updating Diplomatic Impunity for u59 and needed to update all of the monsters anyway, we decided to move forward with replacing the Wildmen in this dungeon. We have not yet replaced Wildmen in other parts of the game, but we intend to do so in the future. DDO's Wildmen enemies are problematic on several levels, and while this could and probably should have been taken care of years ago, we're replacing them now that we have an opportunity to re-focus on this content.

Wildmen and the depiction of them in DDO are not tied to a specific pen-and-paper D&D monster to begin with, giving even less reason for them to remain. As for why Bullywugs as the replacement, we determined that they were a fitting replacement in this dungeon that would cause minimal need to rework the story and other elements that would be difficult to change as part of this Update's revamp.

I think you should have picked any race to replace them except bullywugs. Maybe actually some shifters, since I don't think there are NPC shifters really in DDO.

[LeoLionxxx]

As we were updating Diplomatic Impunity for u59 and needed to update all of the monsters anyway, we decided to move forward with replacing the Wildmen in this dungeon. We have not yet replaced Wildmen in other parts of the game, but we intend to do so in the future. DDO's Wildmen enemies are problematic on several levels, and while this could and probably should have been taken care of years ago, we're replacing them now that we have an opportunity to re-focus on this content.

Wildmen and the depiction of them in DDO are not tied to a specific pen-and-paper D&D monster to begin with, giving even less reason for them to remain. As for why Bullywugs as the replacement, we determined that they were a fitting replacement in this dungeon that would cause minimal need to rework the story and other elements that would be difficult to change as part of this Update's revamp.

That's a good and solid answer, thanks.

Huh, I had in my head that Wild Men were in the DDO Monster manual, but I guess they aren't.

What else in DDO is problematic? If you had unlimited time and money, what else would you change?

IMO "Purge the Heretics" should be closed and/or retooled. I, for one, refuse to run it on principle.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Purge_the_Heretics

[ThomasHunter]

I'd love to see this dungeon retooled a bit to cut down on the redundant running back and forth. For me, that is always a feel bad. Even if the guy at the end who shows you the beachhead that the army has is changed to a wizard who could cast dimension door to go back just cuts down on that a bit. For those saying just use a scroll - not every toon has the ability (in my stable) to do that. Again, just looking for a quality of life here. I mean, you still have to run back through the forest once anyways.

Thanks!
Taleisin

[Wahnsinnig]

I'd love to see this dungeon retooled a bit to cut down on the redundant running back and forth. For me, that is always a feel bad. Even if the guy at the end who shows you the beachhead that the army has is changed to a wizard who could cast dimension door to go back just cuts down on that a bit. For those saying just use a scroll - not every toon has the ability (in my stable) to do that. Again, just looking for a quality of life here. I mean, you still have to run back through the forest once anyways.

Thanks!
Taleisin

Every quest should have a DD when you enter that takes you to the end so you can complete instantly without bothering with the story of the quest or do anything in it.