U51 TR options

[AlsoWondering]

I am just wondering what the TR options will be with U51 and Legendary levels. Right now we have:

(When not iconic) 20 -> 1 or 20 -> 15 (to an iconic race) getting either a heroic class or racial PL. I suspect this won't change.

(When iconic) 30 -> 1 or 30 -> 15 (to an iconic race) getting both a heroic class and iconic race PL.

30 -> 20 getting an epic PL.

Will there be Legendary PLs where you TR:

3X -> 30 getting a Legendary PL

or will it be something else.

I realize it is likely not finalized, but SSG must have some idea at this time.

[Lynnabel]

Update 51 will indeed contain a revamp to our Epic Destiny System, but won't contain a level cap increase. This means that beyond the removal of the requirement to farm Karma in a specific sphere to reincarnate, there are no upcoming systemic changes to the acquisition of any past lives.

[AlsoWondering]

Lynnable, since you didn't say anything about post U51 cap level increases I am assuming that you are still weighting options as to how to handle TRing?

[pjw]

Update 51 will indeed contain a revamp to our Epic Destiny System, but won't contain a level cap increase. This means that beyond the removal of the requirement to farm Karma in a specific sphere to reincarnate, there are no upcoming systemic changes to the acquisition of any past lives.

Will there be a free respec of some kind available?

[dredre9987]

Will there be a free respec of some kind available?

Why would a respec be needed?

[pjw]

Why would a respec be needed?

Some feats are no longer feats (dire charge), others have had their prerequisites changed (destiny feats), and some ED features that have disappeared required feats that were only chosen for that reason (eg. Spell focus).

There's probably a lot more... Once we see them all.

[Valtrick]

Update 51 will indeed contain a revamp to our Epic Destiny System, but won't contain a level cap increase. This means that beyond the removal of the requirement to farm Karma in a specific sphere to reincarnate, there are no upcoming systemic changes to the acquisition of any past lives.

Please don't go through with U51. Please. It will kill the game. Please prioritize fixing lag over making people unhappy.

[pjw]

Please don't go through with U51. Please. It will kill the game. Please prioritize fixing lag over making people unhappy.

Is there a lucid and well-formed list of the actual problems with the proposed changes. From my point of view I am cautiously optimistic**. Reasons, off the top of my head, being:

• No more sitting in HORRIBLE destinies for unlock or AP
• My Alts cease being a drudge
• My more complex characters can have more interesting choices
• My caster is not doomed to the One True Destiny
• It's MUCH more new-player friendly

** Note: Caution in the "cautious optimism" is because it critically depends on how competent the balancing act its. Historically, balancing has been truly, horrendously, beyond-belief baaaad. So...I'm cautious.

[Valtrick]

Is there a lucid and well-formed list of the actual problems with the proposed changes. From my point of view I am cautiously optimistic**. Reasons, off the top of my head, being:

• No more sitting in HORRIBLE destinies for unlock or AP
• My Alts cease being a drudge
• My more complex characters can have more interesting choices
• My caster is not doomed to the One True Destiny
• It's MUCH more new-player friendly

** Note: Caution in the "cautious optimism" is because it critically depends on how competent the balancing act its. Historically, balancing has been truly, horrendously, beyond-belief baaaad. So...I'm cautious.

If something in the past has been truly, horrendously, beyond-belief bad, you're only "cautious"? Patient man

I like / am neutral toward the unlocking destinies. What I HATE is the not getting ED powers at 20. I can see how one would think this would be new player friendly but on the other hand, it makes past lives and reaper points that much more powerful. Which actually hurts new players.

[Avocado]

Is there a lucid and well-formed list of the actual problems with the proposed changes. From my point of view I am cautiously optimistic**. Reasons, off the top of my head, being:

• No more sitting in HORRIBLE destinies for unlock or AP
• My Alts cease being a drudge
• My more complex characters can have more interesting choices
• My caster is not doomed to the One True Destiny
• It's MUCH more new-player friendly

** Note: Caution in the "cautious optimism" is because it critically depends on how competent the balancing act its. Historically, balancing has been truly, horrendously, beyond-belief baaaad. So...I'm cautious.

You get more freedom of choice with being able to twist the good abilities from destinies that suit your build. My fvs rotates between 3 destnies based on the content I am running. Magister for reapers, unyielding for some raids and fatesinger for others. New destinies system won't allow this without a plat fee. This eliminates a huge amount of diversity that some builds can provide. My fvs will have to make a choice, a healing sp destiny or a caster dc destiny with no easy one click way to change it.

Moreover, the changes will require you to take things you may not need just to reach a certain ap requirement. Your alts will be worse off when instead of being down a twist of fate abilty from lack of epic completion you will be down about 24 ap. That's the difference between full dreadnought tree with the rest in the fury of the wild with 200% adrenaline damage vs 300% adrenaline damage. This in fact is way worse for new players.Instead of having 95% the power of epic triple completionist, they will have maybe 70% the power. Discounting epic past life benefits ofc.

All the above issues you stated could be solved by just reworking the current destinies. They could just give new players who hit 20 max destiny xp. How is it any different then what the purposed changes are? Ssg just has the mind set that anything that turbine made is inferior and that they can build it better. I'll believe it when I see it. The first iteration of destiny previews was a disaster. Let's hope they took that to heart and made something actually good. Not holding my breath. I feel like this change is just a change for changes sake. To provide something new and refreshing so the game feels different but maybe not better.

[Tsutti]

The first iteration of destiny previews was a disaster. Let's hope they took that to heart and made something actually good.

You get more freedom of choice with being able to twist the good abilities from destinies that suit your build. My fvs rotates between 3 destnies based on the content I am running. Magister for reapers, unyielding for some raids and fatesinger for others. New destinies system won't allow this without a plat fee. This eliminates a huge amount of diversity that some builds can provide. My fvs will have to make a choice, a healing sp destiny or a caster dc destiny with no easy one click way to change it.

I don't know about "disaster," besides the abilities you had to charge up by spamming other abilities there was a lot of pretty good stuff. Based on the feedback given about those charge based abilities I believe they decided to change that, and it has been suggested that we be allowed maybe two or three destiny presets for free with more available in the store (by presets I mean you customize a setup and save it so you can swap to it whenever). I haven't heard whether that's been implemented, but if so that would eliminate the remainder of the issue I have with what I see; the destiny point disparity between a first lifer and quadruple epic completionist doesn't really matter to me as much because eh, we've already gone down that path with racial points and honestly it does give some kind of incentive to do past lives, which in turn earns some amount of profit, so I can't entirely fault them. It does provide significant power but lacking these points doesn't make a character useless or unplayable in any way, just limits the kinds of builds you can do with it (sad, but again, having some kind of worthwhile incentive to do some past lives turns a profit when people decide they want to make it faster with boxes or xp pots)

I feel like this change is just a change for changes sake. To provide something new and refreshing so the game feels different but maybe not better.

To be fair, change for the sake of change improves the game quality more than simply releasing a new adventure pack. I have nothing against new adventure packs, but from the perspective of "improving" the game, they just add more quests and we already have loads of those. Changing a fundamental game mechanic, however, has more potential to provide something new and refreshing and as long as this is the outcome of such a change (rather than making something loathsome that drives people off), it will better retain players. Sure you could say that instead of changing something for the sake of freshness they should focus on fixing long time bugs and generally improving clunky mechanics, but given that the majority of updates have been another adventure pack this IS a step in the right direction if that's the kind of update you want to see.

Additionally, while the dev team decides what general concept they're going to add to the game next (they may take cool ideas from suggestion threads that players start but no players are included in the decision process is what I mean), they seem to heavily consider input from players on how to change their concept for the better, even sometimes changing the original plan for certain things drastically. I've noticed this quite a bit in recent updates in particular, idk whether it's been quite so prevalent in older updates but I've been paying a little more attention with recent updates because of the nature of the updates.

In saying this I mean to point out that while we as players have little to no influence on what major changes are brought to the game, we've had some very meaningful impact on how the changes are implemented and exactly what form they take--so maybe you can still hold hope for the update to largely be good. On the forums there has been some mixed feedback on U50, but in game I've largely only heard people either raving about how much they love getting to use some of their old gear that they saved for no particular reason and thought they'd probably never have a reason to use again, talking about how excited they are about how much better they can gear for their build with the newfound diversity of gearing options between new items being added and all pre-sharn items now being competitive endgame options.

No update will make everyone happy, and frankly I am not that much of a fan of U50 yet just because there is so much freaking gear to consider now that I still just don't feel like looking at it all yet lol, but as far as I can tell the majority of the player base has been largely satisfied with the past couple of updates.

EDIT: note: only play on Argo, haven't heard thoughts in-game on other servers

[bryanmeerkat]

So they are making it so you are more driven to do lv 20 content at low epic levels and LV 30 epics at higher levels .

Which again is spreading the jam too thin.

At level 20 your power will be less than it was before . Which makes sense but it does mean that grouping will once again suffer.

Good stuff is that a single tree with a few twists is replaced with 3 whole trees to access

[erethizon]

All the above issues you stated could be solved by just reworking the current destinies. They could just give new players who hit 20 max destiny xp. How is it any different then what the purposed changes are? Ssg just has the mind set that anything that turbine made is inferior and that they can build it better. I'll believe it when I see it. The first iteration of destiny previews was a disaster. Let's hope they took that to heart and made something actually good. Not holding my breath. I feel like this change is just a change for changes sake. To provide something new and refreshing so the game feels different but maybe not better.

I think you are missing the reason for the change. The problem with epic levesl is that they are boring. No one is ever excited to reach level 22 or 23. Once you hit 21 you need to gain a full 3 levels before anything even potentially interesting happens. In heroics you would have gained 12 AP in that time so there is always a little something extra you can get. The problem with giving max power at level 20 is it makes the process of gaining levels in epics dreadfully dull. While I like all the power I get at 20 I fully understand that it is far more reasonable (and fun) to dish out that power over the course of leveling than to just dump it all in our laps in the first second and then do nothing afterwards.

[donblas]

At level 20 your power will be less than it was before . Which makes sense but it does mean that grouping will once again suffer.

Good stuff is that a single tree with a few twists is replaced with 3 whole trees to access

In what way will the power of my toons be less through having several density points to spend when they hit lvl20 than having none as at present?

I agree that three trees is easier than the clunky twist system.

[donblas]

Is there a lucid and well-formed list of the actual problems with the proposed changes. From my point of view I am cautiously optimistic**. Reasons, off the top of my head, being:

• No more sitting in HORRIBLE destinies for unlock or AP
• My Alts cease being a drudge
• My more complex characters can have more interesting choices
• My caster is not doomed to the One True Destiny
• It's MUCH more new-player friendly

** Note: Caution in the "cautious optimism" is because it critically depends on how competent the balancing act its. Historically, balancing has been truly, horrendously, beyond-belief baaaad. So...I'm cautious.

Totally agree - except for the "cautious" bit!

[donblas]

I think you are missing the reason for the change. The problem with epic levesl is that they are boring. No one is ever excited to reach level 22 or 23. Once you hit 21 you need to gain a full 3 levels before anything even potentially interesting happens. In heroics you would have gained 12 AP in that time so there is always a little something extra you can get. The problem with giving max power at level 20 is it makes the process of gaining levels in epics dreadfully dull. While I like all the power I get at 20 I fully understand that it is far more reasonable (and fun) to dish out that power over the course of leveling than to just dump it all in our laps in the first second and then do nothing afterwards.

Yup, exactly. Bring on U51 ASAP!

[Mininin67]

While I like all the power I get at 20 I fully understand that it is far more reasonable (and fun) to dish out that power over the course of leveling than to just dump it all in our laps in the first second and then do nothing afterwards.

Fun is very subjective

I liked the old Epic system, I found it fun even in off destinies, I found it fun to figure out how to make it work.
While it did need some updating a total revamp= not fun for me.
The direction the game has been going for the last year=not fun for me and i find myself playing less and less and spending nothing on this game.

[bryanmeerkat]

In what way will the power of my toons be less through having several density points to spend when they hit lvl20 than having none as at present?

I agree that three trees is easier than the clunky twist system.

The destiny points will not be the issue .

Your characters at level 20 will only be able to access a small portion of the trees and only have a small amount of your total epic power .

The current system throws it all at you at level 20 . Straight to capston

es .Now you will have to reach lv 30 before accessing them .

The power wil be spread out as you level rather than all in at 20 .


The new system makes perfect sense . However there is a massive issue that the original system was so badly designed but people have expected a massive shift at 20 rather than a gradual increase to 30 .

The game will now get easier and easier the closer you get to 30 . Which thematically makes little sense .

Level 21 will be like playing a first life with just a few points in ED.

[Maldorin]

The game will now get easier and easier the closer you get to 30 . Which thematically makes little sense .

Have no fear. After a short time they will buff the mobs at cap across the board for "balance".

[donblas]

The destiny points will not be the issue .

Your characters at level 20 will only be able to access a small portion of the trees and only have a small amount of your total epic power .

The current system throws it all at you at level 20 . Straight to capston

es .Now you will have to reach lv 30 before accessing them .

The power wil be spread out as you level rather than all in at 20 .


The new system makes perfect sense . However there is a massive issue that the original system was so badly designed but people have expected a massive shift at 20 rather than a gradual increase to 30 .

The game will now get easier and easier the closer you get to 30 . Which thematically makes little sense .

Level 21 will be like playing a first life with just a few points in ED.

At the moment, when my character hits level 20 it has no epic power, no destiny point. What is this "ALL" that the current system throws at my character at level 20? The new system gives several destiny points. What does the old system give me?

Isn't being able to access a small portion of the trees with several destiny points when I hit 20 better than accessing the only first core of one destiny when I hit 20?

Yes level 21 will be like playing a first life at present plus I will get several ED points which my first life toons don't get now. Some = better than none.