Favored souls SLAs totally overpowered

[Tarinia]

Hi Guys,

I already stated my opinion about giving every class and spell nearly the same damage potential (1d6+x/L) in relation to original D&D rules.
On Hardcore server I am playing a pure palemaster really maxed for damage with nullification.

I ran around with Favoured souls and lighning bolt/sunbolt and was really awed how they could oneshot whole group of mobs or even bosses- the negative damage from palemaster was not nearly similar. Needed two shots or more.
In addition light/alignment damage is best maxed in game and damage every monster the same-

on the other side you have problems in most quests as palemaster with undeads (1/3 in the game?), because the first shot from palemaster heals and the first shot from now every
other spellcasting class kills them or damages them so that the fighters can easily finish them. I don´t use my slas in these quest at all because of this detrimental effect.
But you have not enough mana to do anything else because palemasters has only negative damage as slas. I think that should be balanced somehow.

But with the area attack holy smite it was absolutely owerpowered. We yesterday runned through temple of elemental evil (lvl 7 quest) and one slas/holy smite kills one complete group on elite.
That is absolute not something I like- having the most spell points, the highest heal potential and now also the best slas. Why the devs don´t think about giving high lvl spells as slas to classes in lower lvls and then increasing the damage potential dramatically?

thanks
Tarinia

[Zretch]

Hi Guys,

I already stated my opinion about giving every class and spell nearly the same damage potential (1d6+x/L) in relation to original D&D rules.
On Hardcore server I am playing a pure palemaster really maxed for damage with nullification.

I ran around with Favoured souls and lighning bolt/sunbolt and was really awed how they could oneshot whole group of mobs or even bosses- the negative damage from palemaster was not nearly similar. Needed two shots or more.
In addition light/alignment damage is best maxed in game and damage every monster the same-

on the other side you have problems in most quests as palemaster with undeads (1/3 in the game?), because the first shot from palemaster heals and the first shot from now every
other spellcasting class kills them or damages them so that the fighters can easily finish them. I don´t use my slas in these quest at all because of this detrimental effect.
But you have not enough mana to do anything else because palemasters has only negative damage as slas. I think that should be balanced somehow.

But with the area attack holy smite it was absolutely owerpowered. We yesterday runned through temple of elemental evil (lvl 7 quest) and one slas/holy smite kills one complete group on elite.
That is absolute not something I like- having the most spell points, the highest heal potential and now also the best slas. Why the devs don´t think about giving high lvl spells as slas to classes in lower lvls and then increasing the damage potential dramatically?

thanks
Tarinia

Holy Smite does zero damage to good aligned mobs, and half damage to neutral mobs. It also has a max caster level of 10, which you'd be at due to FvS cores giving +caster level. That spell that *gasp* kills elites in one shot */gasp* will no longer scale with your level and will only scale with spellpower. That's an issue with most of the Favored Soul SLAs. Very good for low levels, but they do all hit a wall and they're nowhere near as effective as you enter low epics as they were when you were in low heroics. Keep leveling and you'll see. Declaring something overpowered based on its performance in a level 7 quest on elite is being irresponsible, IMO.

[darkniteyogi]

You'll have to play that FVS character yourself to experience the drawbacks to that character.

For one, their SLAs appear powerful because they One-shot everything. Keyword One-shot because their cooldown is really slow too.

Another thing FVS have very crappy UMD - very difficult on Hardcore server to struggle to even cast Expeditious Retreat on yourself at low levels. Also Crappy Skill Points.

Palemasters on the other hand - Easy UMD, Immune to Death Effects (virtually all), Displace Spell, Firewall, Ice Storm, Web, Insightful Reflexes, Endless Skill Points.

They're both good classes for Hardcore. I played a PM last season. Playing an FVS now. I would think FVS would be more powerful though.

[rabidfox]

Holy Smite does zero damage to good aligned mobs, and half damage to neutral mobs. It also has a max caster level of 10, which you'd be at due to FvS cores giving +caster level. That spell that *gasp* kills elites in one shot */gasp* will no longer scale with your level and will only scale with spellpower. That's an issue with most of the Favored Soul SLAs. Very good for low levels, but they do all hit a wall and they're nowhere near as effective as you enter low epics as they were when you were in low heroics. Keep leveling and you'll see. Declaring something overpowered based on its performance in a level 7 quest on elite is being irresponsible, IMO.

This^^^ And holy smite (plus the other 2 alignment spells at the same spell level) & flame strike aren't SLAs for FvS; only cometfall and sun bolt(if events align and things line up perfectly and it actually casts correctly to hit them all) for AoE SLAs. Empower + maximize + quicken (+enlarge at times) to have those one-shots non-SLAs burns thru my spell pool like crazy on live where I've got a huge spell pool from insane gear + past lives, it'll hit really hard on HC for burning thru it in very few casts unless one just runs them metaless.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Another thing FVS have very crappy UMD - very difficult on Hardcore server to struggle to even cast Expeditious Retreat on yourself at low levels.

The Keep On The Borderlands quests / wilderness has an ER clicky as loot. Why not use that ?

Palemasters on the other hand - Easy UMD, Immune to Death Effects (virtually all), Displace Spell, Firewall, Ice Storm, Web, Insightful Reflexes, Endless Skill Points.

Which is clearly why they are one of the most favourite classes - the amount of PMs on the live servers seems to be incredibly high as well. I often see either elementals or dark clouds. I see them a *lot* of times ! Especially since - as I read - their Skeleton Knight seems to be very good as well.

[rabidfox]

At the same level as FvS get Holy Smite, Wiz has access to fireball & acid blast, and those will also melt groups like they're nothing for dealing with undead or neg immune mobs. There's lots of tools in wizard's spell kit and the ability to swap spells around all the time is great when used before instances to optimize their play to deal with known mob issues.

[Marshal_Lannes]

FVS are a very front-loaded class. So while they dominate early, many other classes catch up later. I actually think they are pretty well balanced and offer that initial rush of power which is appropriate for a premium class.

[Zretch]

At the same level as FvS get Holy Smite, Wiz has access to fireball & acid blast, and those will also melt groups like they're nothing for dealing with undead or neg immune mobs. There's lots of tools in wizard's spell kit and the ability to swap spells around all the time is great when used before instances to optimize their play to deal with known mob issues.

A wizard isn't going to heal your party. I don't think those classes are in direct competition. Wizards aren't better than Favored Souls, they're different. Better at some things, not at others. It's sad that the general forum of DDO has some of the worst takes on classes and class balance for the game. Favored Soul is a VERY good class that was improved from a damage point of view by the the latest spell pass. It didn't make them OP, it didn't make them better than a Sorc, but it did make them viable to fulfill that role to a far greater degree than they were, especially in heroic leveling. Sure, a Quell can completely shut them down and their CC spells are spread across too many spell schools, but they are a solid class. Wizards are what they are. Lots of versatility, lots of convenience, lots of tools, but lacking the max caster level bumps and mana pool that Sorcs and FvS receive.

BTW, Fireball is 1d6+3 per caster level. Holy Smite is 1d6+8 per caster level, half damage on neutral, no damage on good. Not directly comparable.

[Tarinia]

At the same level as FvS get Holy Smite, Wiz has access to fireball & acid blast, and those will also melt groups like they're nothing for dealing with undead or neg immune mobs. There's lots of tools in wizard's spell kit and the ability to swap spells around all the time is great when used before instances to optimize their play to deal with known mob issues.

Of course I am speaking about hardcore heroics. Problem is that Palemaster get the first aea sla at lvl 12. Holy smite is lower lvl and will affect most mobs because most are evil or neutral aligned.
The base damage is just crazy looking to pen& paper the devs had known why in original game the damage was not higher then fireball. In addition you can’t use fireball to burn through quests solo because you have half spell points then favs and it’s no sla so much to expensive with meta feats to use often. And it seems that holy smite have an bigger area the fireball affected.

[rabidfox]

BTW, Fireball is 1d6+3 per caster level. Holy Smite is 1d6+8 per caster level, half damage on neutral, no damage on good. Not directly comparable.

There's just a lot of apples to oranges type comparisons for this whole thread: FvS vs Wiz (instead of Cleric vs Wiz or FvS vs Sorc or etc. etc...), FvS's damage AoV tree vs Wiz's self-heal/immunity/damage(survival/damage mixed tree), no-spell swaps on the fly vs more spells per level/swaps for the trade off spell pool sizes. It's all a meh jumble for comparing them side to side; the fireball/acid blast suggestion was just in response to the OP's comment about undead not going down on the 1st hit and requiring a 2nd/3rd cast; while fireball/acid blast will a bit less per caster level than holy smite, they still hit quite hard and are solid choices for wizards to use.

[Jaxtan]

Another thread on why a class is OP because someone played a few levels. Oh wait, they haven't played it at all and have zero understanding of how the class plays through multiple levels and end game. Play through three lives up to end game, then you may have an opinion. Otherwise, you are just trying to ruin the game and bring about its downfall. Must work for a competitor.

[Justicesfury]

Hi Guys,

I already stated my opinion about giving every class and spell nearly the same damage potential (1d6+x/L) in relation to original D&D rules.
On Hardcore server I am playing a pure palemaster really maxed for damage with nullification.

I ran around with Favoured souls and lighning bolt/sunbolt and was really awed how they could oneshot whole group of mobs or even bosses- the negative damage from palemaster was not nearly similar. Needed two shots or more.
In addition light/alignment damage is best maxed in game and damage every monster the same-

on the other side you have problems in most quests as palemaster with undeads (1/3 in the game?), because the first shot from palemaster heals and the first shot from now every
other spellcasting class kills them or damages them so that the fighters can easily finish them. I don´t use my slas in these quest at all because of this detrimental effect.
But you have not enough mana to do anything else because palemasters has only negative damage as slas. I think that should be balanced somehow.

But with the area attack holy smite it was absolutely owerpowered. We yesterday runned through temple of elemental evil (lvl 7 quest) and one slas/holy smite kills one complete group on elite.
That is absolute not something I like- having the most spell points, the highest heal potential and now also the best slas. Why the devs don´t think about giving high lvl spells as slas to classes in lower lvls and then increasing the damage potential dramatically?

thanks
Tarinia

The ink isn't dry yet for the last nerf. Now we need to nerf something else. Has it even been two weeks yet? You wait till people catch on what a cleric with sun domain can do.

[Atremus]

After asking / begging for improvements to the FVS class for years, I am sad to see someone already calling for nerfs. Do you know how hard used to be to level a divine? Prior to having SLA's added to the AoV tree it sucked and before WIS/CHA to damage it sucked even more. The SLA's in AoV have massive cool downs that do single target damage [or pass through] until you get to Level 12 and the cometfall SLA. The developers front loaded the spell damage but that "suposed" gap disappears by Heroic Sharn

While your wizard has enjoyed Web / Acid blast / Displacement / Wall of Fire / and negative auras.

You should try a death cleric. Its better than FvS

[bruener]

Another thread on why a class is OP because someone played a few levels. Oh wait, they haven't played it at all and have zero understanding of how the class plays through multiple levels and end game. Play through three lives up to end game, then you may have an opinion. Otherwise, you are just trying to ruin the game and bring about its downfall. Must work for a competitor.

So someone must play a character into end game three times to have a opinion? You cant get a good enough idea after the first one? Your way sounds very time consuming. I’ll just pay attention the first life ????

[adamkatt]

Hi Guys,

I already stated my opinion about giving every class and spell nearly the same damage potential (1d6+x/L) in relation to original D&D rules.
On Hardcore server I am playing a pure palemaster really maxed for damage with nullification.

I ran around with Favoured souls and lighning bolt/sunbolt and was really awed how they could oneshot whole group of mobs or even bosses- the negative damage from palemaster was not nearly similar. Needed two shots or more.
In addition light/alignment damage is best maxed in game and damage every monster the same-

on the other side you have problems in most quests as palemaster with undeads (1/3 in the game?), because the first shot from palemaster heals and the first shot from now every
other spellcasting class kills them or damages them so that the fighters can easily finish them. I don´t use my slas in these quest at all because of this detrimental effect.
But you have not enough mana to do anything else because palemasters has only negative damage as slas. I think that should be balanced somehow.

But with the area attack holy smite it was absolutely owerpowered. We yesterday runned through temple of elemental evil (lvl 7 quest) and one slas/holy smite kills one complete group on elite.
That is absolute not something I like- having the most spell points, the highest heal potential and now also the best slas. Why the devs don´t think about giving high lvl spells as slas to classes in lower lvls and then increasing the damage potential dramatically?

thanks
Tarinia

How over powered is that same fvs in reaper 4 8 or 10?

[Matuse]

Holy Smite is not an SLA for FvS. Casting it with full metas burns your spellpoint pool like crazy.

Sunbolt has super janky aim, and hitting more than 2 enemies with it is actually pretty of difficult. Even hitting 2 takes some doing, and you have to be really selective about your target. So frequently the already long cooldown becomes even longer since you have to set up enemies to have a decent chance of hitting them.

[Jaxtan]

So someone must play a character into end game three times to have a opinion? You cant get a good enough idea after the first one? Your way sounds very time consuming. I’ll just pay attention the first life ????

Yes, no, yes, not possible.

For an opinion "Favored souls SLAs totally overpowered", yes they must play through three times for an opinion that threatens game play.

[Seph1roth5]

All I'm reading is that OP sucks as a pale master lol. I love FVS blaster, but there's a definite pause between casting their spell and it hitting (smite, flame strike, fire storm, sound burst, etc.). A non-useless wiz can easily get their spells off first.

[slarden]

/Not signed

The reason there is a high representation of fvs on hardcore is because they get 10 hp per level not because of their dps. It's as simple as that.

[darkniteyogi]

PM is more powerful as an eldritch knight THF at low levels, imo, until you have AOE SLA's which i think you only get at level 12.
Its easy now to get Int to damage with the Harper tree. Splash 2 Rogue to the Wiz and you get Quarterstaff feats to increase your attack speed from Thief Acrobat.