MacOS Catalina Compatibility

[Jhishma]

Here's the thing: It makes me sad that I will no longer be able to play DDO. I had been led to believe that the latest WINE client update would do the trick (maybe SSG thought it would?) but apparently that's not the case. The one piece of advice I've been given is not to upgrade my Mac -- but that's not very realistic for me, I'm afraid. I have a Season Pass that I won't be able to use, and I'll miss out on things like Keep on the Borderlands. I'm a casual player but I've been a consistent player over the years. Yes, I'm feeling a bit let down and sorry for myself.

My sentiments, exactly.

[Jhishma]

Honestly, it's pretty simple to do. Resize and reparation your drive to create a new volume for the old os. Boot os installer off of usb. Install os to new partition.

It will work.

What would be more advisable? Doing this? Or dual booting into Linux?

[Mambopoa]

With the release of Catalina for MacOS in the near future, Apple will no longer support 32-bit applications. This impacts the compatibility of our WINE-based client for MacOS. Players can continue to play DDO as long as they do not update to Catalina for MacOS. We apologize for any inconvenience this causes to our MacOS users.

Inconvenient? I have enjoyed playing this game on the iMac for a few years, but since I am not by any stretch deeply conversant on the lingo (WINE-based client? What the hell is that?) Looks like I'll have to cancel my account. bummer.

[jkalten]

What would be more advisable? Doing this? Or dual booting into Linux?

I'm going to tell you what I did. I'm running a MBP 8,2 as a daily driver still as for the most part I just need Xcode, and it will still run Xcode 11 and Catalina like a champ.

I kept a High Sierra partition as it is the last OS Version that was directly supported. I play with the wine client from that partition or I launch Parallels sometimes and play the Windows client from inside a windows 10 Virtual Machine.

Most of the linux discussion here on the forums is from discussing using Virtual Box to create a Linux VM to play DDO with, because that would be a free solution that doesn't risk peoples data by repartitioning the hard drive if they aren't technically minded people.

In the real world, using a separate partition to run the OS instead of a VM will be more performant. However, you may not need all that performance for DDO. Which is why some are choosing to go with a VM.

For the second OS, it comes down to Linux or Windows 10. Linux support of gaming through valve's proton compatibility layer, is very very good. But SSG could break something that doesn't create a bug on Windows clients but does create a bug through proton on linux at any time. Running Windows 10 is going to introduce a cost because Windows licenses are not free. However, it's less likely that something will break.

Inconvenient? I have enjoyed playing this game on the iMac for a few years, but since I am not by any stretch deeply conversant on the lingo (WINE-based client? What the hell is that?) Looks like I'll have to cancel my account. bummer.

WINE stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator. It is a compatibility layer that allows users to run Windows programs on non-windows computers. Proton is another version of the same thing.

The Wine client then runs the windows version of DDO inside a container that allows it to run on macOS. However, wine does not work on macOS Catalina, so if you update to it you will have to access the game through other methods.

[Myranna]

My findings so far. Crossover with Wine 3 (a few versions back from current) runs DDO like a champ. Wine 4 seems to break it completely. Parallels runs DDO very well, IF you set the VM to be optimized for gaming.
The Wine client couldn't even be installed when I downloaded it.
Nothing will get Catalina to run the DDO client until Wine is updated and/or Parallels gets updated. I suspect Parallels will manage it first, Wine will take longer. Both are saying it'll be a month at least.

[Alberto22]

Didn't notice this post until it was too late. I am a developer and Mac is the best platform for what I develop. I get a new one about every two years and keep it current. Until I upgraded to Catalina, I either developed or played DDO (two subscriptions, primaries / dual-box; DDO points all the time; lots of TRs / RRs / raids+gear). Been playing for over 10 years. This really sucks. Canceling everything and going to seek a new game (hopefully) that is compatible with Catalina.

[jkalten]

My findings so far. Crossover with Wine 3 (a few versions back from current) runs DDO like a champ. Wine 4 seems to break it completely. Parallels runs DDO very well, IF you set the VM to be optimized for gaming.
The Wine client couldn't even be installed when I downloaded it.
Nothing will get Catalina to run the DDO client until Wine is updated and/or Parallels gets updated. I suspect Parallels will manage it first, Wine will take longer. Both are saying it'll be a month at least.

I had to double check to make sure I wasn't crazy when I ready your post, but Parallels runs already. Took this SS as proof though I didn't try to actually game this way for reasons that should be clear if you look at the gpu of the system that I took the screen shots on.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EL...__r1NCsjz5OXBw

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OE...ETtevXOu7FuF2E

Didn't notice this post until it was too late. I am a developer and Mac is the best platform for what I develop. I get a new one about every two years and keep it current. Until I upgraded to Catalina, I either developed or played DDO (two subscriptions, primaries / dual-box; DDO points all the time; lots of TRs / RRs / raids+gear). Been playing for over 10 years. This really sucks. Canceling everything and going to seek a new game (hopefully) that is compatible with Catalina.

Mostly the same. I've got windows systems to keep playing on overall. I just like macOS better because I'm in Xcode so much.

[augustuscosta]

I had to double check to make sure I wasn't crazy when I ready your post, but Parallels runs already. Took this SS as proof though I didn't try to actually game this way for reasons that should be clear if you look at the gpu of the system that I took the screen shots on.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EL...__r1NCsjz5OXBw

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OE...ETtevXOu7FuF2E



Mostly the same. I've got windows systems to keep playing on overall. I just like macOS better because I'm in Xcode so much.

I'm running in the cloud using a docker container. A bit big and with a higher hardware resource consumption but looks better than on Mac.

That way I was able to play even on the tablet.
Maybe the cost of this environment gets a little high but I am enjoying some free samples I have accumulated.

[jkalten]

I'm running in the cloud using a docker container. A bit big and with a higher hardware resource consumption but looks better than on Mac.

That way I was able to play even on the tablet.
Maybe the cost of this environment gets a little high but I am enjoying some free samples I have accumulated.

Not having much experience with Docker yet, you made my jaw drop. I didn't know that docker could output anything with graphics. I've only used it to spin up SQL Server test environments on my Mac when I was learning SQL.

[jwelch]

Some points:

the idea that ssg née turbine was surprised by this is false. Any number of people have been warning them about the 64-bit only plans since the 10.13 betas. They knew.

at one point, some time ago severlin tried to say the Mac client already was 64-bit. Sigh.

WINE is the closest to a zero-effort way to play DDO “natively” on a Mac you can come up with, but SSG’s lack of effort there caused the problems they’re now having.

i feel bad for Cordovan, he’s really out here on his own fielding this.

SSG would be more honest to say they only support windows moving forward, and if you want it to work in WINE/VM/Boot Camp, that’s up to you, but if you’re running on Apple hardware, they’re neither going to support nor help you out. it’d suck, but it’d be honest.

SSG could have been slowly updating this all along and actually planning a transition. Instead, they half-arsed it, and the results are about what you’d expect.

this is fixable for some value of fixable, but you should disregard any thinking of an actual native 64-bit client on the Mac. It’s not happening.

and I’ve been vip on the Mac client since day 1 of the first beta release.

[2003gs2008]

I am sad to think I will be leaving behind my VIP account and all of the time I spent on my main.
I really hope SSG will allocate resources to making a (working) Mac version.
If they do not, I suspect I will play League of Legends more, though the fact is that my DDO main is a member of my family, and my kids and I talk about our toons as if they are imaginary friends. My 9 year old daughter has been waiting for "her turn" to spend quality time with me running quests. Just as she gets her asdw and right click down, Catalina punches me in the gut.
On the plus side, her iMac is so old Apple will never let it install Catalina. So she'll get to play, with her free account, I'll just not get to play with my VIP account (on my newer, better iMac).

It's particularly funny since Microsoft Office also bit the dust, I was using 2008 version for Mac, and they want $79 / year to subscribe, and I was like "eff you" and here I'm HAPPY to pay SSG $99 / yr to keep my "friends" alive.

I'll give them until they ask for me to renew my VIP to get Mac client running. I doubt I'll renew my VIP if I can't play in a native Mac OS environment. I did the Wine stuff years ago and it never made me happy.

Also, to any Mac haters who are still reading this, I meet a lot of people who think cheaper is better, whether cars or houses or whatever. I hope you'll always have the choice to use a PC, eat at McDonalds, and drive a Chevy. For me, I might be willing to spend extra to get something I like better. Don't judge me, I don't judge you. If you can't understand why I use a Mac, that's fine. Just don't act like I'm stupid to do so. Resiliency comes from having options, and if I am willing to subsidize that, so that we're not stuck with a monopoly's version, be thankful. If everybody using the same thing was really that great of a plan, the USSR would be making our computers and sending them to us freight.

[augustuscosta]

Not having much experience with Docker yet, you made my jaw drop. I didn't know that docker could output anything with graphics. I've only used it to spin up SQL Server test environments on my Mac when I was learning SQL.

You can find some examples about how to render front end here https://github.com/jessfraz/dockerfiles.

You can do a lot of things with docker

[TheReptile]

Honestly, it's pretty simple to do. Resize and reparation your drive to create a new volume for the old os. Boot os installer off of usb. Install os to new partition.

It will work.

Yes, it is extremely simple to do, and Apple even explains how:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891

[Pepi_I]

This are my findings.

When I started updating my Mac (Mac mini 2018) it warned me about programs not running under the new OS. I looked up which programs did not run and it was a long list so I decided not to upgrade at this moment.

When DDO switch to the Wine client I had a little trouble starting the installation but got it running after some time. The only problem was selecting a good resolution for my screen and running in a window did take some time to figure out.

Now I am using it a couple of weeks and I can say it isn't disappointing. I noticed a few thing:
+the headset is working again, didn't work for half a year on the Mac version.
-sound of chat is to soft
+game is running at the same speed as on the Mac version.
+didn't see any glitches any more.
-steering while feather faling doesn't work as well as it did
-sometimes the game is not running smoothly Restarting helps.

Overall positive and waiting for the 64 bit version.

[GunnarPrince]

Yes, it is extremely simple to do, and Apple even explains how:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891

Ok,
I will because DDO does not care for their mac customers....
How much space do I need in partition to install macOS, DDO app and run it?
Thanks,

[jkalten]

Ok,
I will because DDO does not care for their mac customers....
How much space do I need in partition to install macOS, DDO app and run it?
Thanks,

Ok so SWAG on this. I think Mojave needs about 20GB, and I think that DDO technically only needs about 20GB more with low res textures, but you'll want high res and the ability to have enough space for updates so I'd push that to 50-60gb for a total of 80GB would be my recommendation.

Now I didn't look up all the specifics, but if I was to install a separate macOS partition for DDO that would be my minimum size 80GB partition. This of course is difficult because Mac base storage is pathetically insufficient for 2010 let alone 2019.

[Myranna]

Crossover 19 (recent release) can NOW run 32-bit Windows programs on a 64-bit OS. Since Crossover uses Wine, my guess is that the latest WINE version can do this.

I got the email from Crossover about a half hour ago, I upgraded to 19 (free for me) and tested it. DDO runs great on it now.

[Daarsurra]

while i'm not a 14y veteran, it's clear that SSG's profit model doesn't include Mac users...in fact, the Wine client (developed while repeatedly telling players there is no support for Mac users) is at best HALF DONE. if i can't copy over my ddo.keymap, ui layout, and userprefs files in Wine so i don't have to TOTALLY reengineer the game i've paid a lot for and programmed my 11 button mouse for, SSG are the ********. i understand that predatory capitalism has conditioned most of the 1st world to just shrug their shoulders at tech adversity, but it doesn't change the reality that SSG has decided to put profit/new content above fixing the myriad issues they inherited/still exist. getting rid of the small amount of profit Mac users represent was the first step in streamlining the deathrattle-profit model they've adopted.

so, like many, i moved to Boot Camp, which has worked over the last year...NOT ANYMORE...

sad to see the community so many of us curated/fostered be totally digested by a company that thinks their margins are more important than their customers, but that is what has INDEED happened. so for all of you, "Macs are bad for games" jingoists, realize that just because the game works for you, your logic isn't water-tight. when i first moved to Boot Camp (Windows 10), it was like playing a new game; the frame rate was perfect; still had to adjust graphics settings, but, "you probably won't get what you pay for." then, over the last couple months, the lag made the game nearly unplayable; consulting "support" produced the recommendation that i forward ports 9000-9100 and use ipconfig /flushdns...well, Verizon isn't hot on non-business-class customers attempting to establish static IPs, i don't know dynamic IPs, and i ended up breaking my old Fios G1100 by their estimation...i'm done with this game even if i can ever play it again.

SSG, in my estimation, are unscrupuous at best--refusing, despite my cries in the forum and through support emails, to give notice DIRECTLY on the game download page to new/returning Mac players that THERE IS NO SUPPORT, THERE IS NO COMPLETE WINE CLIENT, AND THAT THEY ARE ABOUT TO SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO A PAY-TO-PLAY SCHEME.

not ok, no matter how much the world has taught us to belive that success at any cost is a virtue.

so, please ban me for profanity; ban me for speaking truth; ban me from anything associated with this game that DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE YOU INSISTED I DON'T MATTER.

oh, and i know there're most likely some good employees there (with families they need to feed); i don't care; if you set about making your profession one that perpetuates predatory capitalism, and thereby an inequitable philosophy (because "we're all doing it these days"), then i have no simpathy; assess your lives, and find things to be proud of on your deathbeds.

SSG can rot in hell; i don't "turn the other cheek."

[Blistering]

With the 64 bit client released today, are the problems for Mac users running Catalina over?

[Kaytis]

With the 64 bit client released today, are the problems for Mac users running Catalina over?

The installer and launcher are still 32-bit, so they won’t run in Catalina. However, I was able to get the 64-bit client to “work” in Catalina by copying it over there and launching it from a script. Unfortunately the graphics are messed up because the wrong graphics card on my 16” MacBook Pro is being selected. The seeds of something working are definitely there.