Universal spell power and positive spell power - stack?

[RS-Makk]

If I have a devotion item (equipment bonus to positive spell power) and an item with equipment bonus to universal spell power, will these stack?

[slarden]

A devotion item won't stack with a potency item, but generally if you get universal spell power from an enhancement, ED, etc. that will add to your devotion score.

The easiest way for a non-caster to increase devotion is heal skill (heal skill augment, max skill points, etc.) and implement bonus, i.e., slotting devotion in the weapon with the highest enhancement bonus.

[Atremus]

Universal Spell Power stacks with any other source of Spell Power.

Potency doesn't stack with anything.

[Faltout]

Lol, the devs really messed things up with their explanation of stacking...

Ok, here's how it works generally: what matters is only the bonus type. Equipment bonuses to spell power in general don't stack (be that positive, negative, fire, acid, or all together).

Universal spell power just means that the amount mentioned is added to all spell powers. So, an equipment bonus to positive, an equipment bonus to negative, an equipment bonus to fire, etc.

Now, generally, bonuses from enhancements that don't mention a type stack with everything. So, if the tree says "you get 1 universal spell power for each point spent", that means that you get a +1 stacking bonus to all spell powers. And no matter how many stacking bonuses you get, they will all stack.

The answer to your question is no. Don't let the devs confuse you with tricky answers.

[Silverleafeon]

Apparently the main culprit is the Thalm Qstaffs which claim UPS but are actually granting the same in each individual spell power, so they don't stack. Mislabel.

[EllisDee37]

Lol, the devs really messed things up with their explanation of stacking...

Ok, here's how it works generally: what matters is only the bonus type. Equipment bonuses to spell power in general don't stack (be that positive, negative, fire, acid, or all together).

Universal spell power just means that the amount mentioned is added to all spell powers. So, an equipment bonus to positive, an equipment bonus to negative, an equipment bonus to fire, etc.

Now, generally, bonuses from enhancements that don't mention a type stack with everything. So, if the tree says "you get 1 universal spell power for each point spent", that means that you get a +1 stacking bonus to all spell powers. And no matter how many stacking bonuses you get, they will all stack.

The answer to your question is no. Don't let the devs confuse you with tricky answers.

You're describing potency, which was mislabeled as universal spell power. (eg: Thaumaturgy staffs.)

U29 is introducing feats and item effects that boost universal spell power, which will stack with devotion. My understanding is that they're also correcting the old mislabeled descriptions to say something like "+60 Equipment bonus to all spell power."

Technically, "universal" is the bonus type, which is weird. But whatever.

EDIT: I suspect that the spell power you get from enhancements is untyped, meaning it stacks with everything including itself. Much like stat points from enhancement/destiny trees. Those suckers stack with literally everything.

[Vargouille]

There's some release notes for Lamannia as well and for Update 29 upcoming, but to clarify some mistakes made in the past:

• Potency lies. Potency says it is a bonus to universal spell power. It's wrong. It's a bonus to each other specific spell power. Potency gives +X Equipment bonus to Fire Spell Power and Electric Spell Power and Repair and Positive etc. Because of this, it won't stack with other things that give the same bonuses to those spell powers.
• There is a distinct statistic which is universal spell power. This is different from all the other spell powers, and stacks with all of them. It is a bit confusing. (Not quite as confusing as Natural Armor, which is a distinct statistic that adds to AC and can have multiple bonus types applied to it, rather than simply being a bonus type itself...)

Short version: Potency lies. We're fixing it where we have found any errors, for Update 29 (should be reflected on Lamannia right now).

(To my knowledge, only potency is outright wrong re: spell powers and bonus types etc.)

[Darkmits]

Basically Potency is the "jack of all trades, master of none" for spellpower. It gives spellpower to all elements, but it's of course lower than what the individual bonuses would give should you go for those. We say "Potency" to avoid saying "Acid, Fire, Sonic, Frost, Light and Alignment etc"

If you have 12 Universal, 60 Potency and 84 Equipment to Fire, then your Acid, Frost, Sonic etc. spellpower is 12+60 = 72, but your Fire spellpower is 12+84 = 96. This is from gear of course, since you can have sources for spellpower from feats/enhancements/etc.

[Systern]

There's some release notes for Lamannia as well and for Update 29 upcoming, but to clarify some mistakes made in the past:

• Potency lies. Potency says it is a bonus to universal spell power. It's wrong. It's a bonus to each other specific spell power. Potency gives +X Equipment bonus to Fire Spell Power and Electric Spell Power and Repair and Positive etc. Because of this, it won't stack with other things that give the same bonuses to those spell powers.
• There is a distinct statistic which is universal spell power. This is different from all the other spell powers, and stacks with all of them. It is a bit confusing. (Not quite as confusing as Natural Armor, which is a distinct statistic that adds to AC and can have multiple bonus types applied to it, rather than simply being a bonus type itself...)

Short version: Potency lies. We're fixing it where we have found any errors, for Update 29 (should be reflected on Lamannia right now).

(To my knowledge, only potency is outright wrong re: spell powers and bonus types etc.)

So the question is: What's "Insightful Potency" on the Orb from Devil's Gambit? Is it really an Insight bonus to USP, or is it Insight bonus to each?

[Vargouille]

So the question is: What's "Insightful Potency" on the Orb from Devil's Gambit? Is it really an Insight bonus to USP, or is it Insight bonus to each?

From my recollection, I'm fairly certain everything named "potency" is NOT applying to Universal, but actually to each. (Text should be addressed in U29/Lamannia, though it's possible we've missed some text somewhere.)

[Kompera_Oberon]

There's some release notes for Lamannia as well and for Update 29 upcoming, but to clarify some mistakes made in the past:

• Potency lies. Potency says it is a bonus to universal spell power. It's wrong. It's a bonus to each other specific spell power. Potency gives +X Equipment bonus to Fire Spell Power and Electric Spell Power and Repair and Positive etc. Because of this, it won't stack with other things that give the same bonuses to those spell powers.
• There is a distinct statistic which is universal spell power. This is different from all the other spell powers, and stacks with all of them. It is a bit confusing. (Not quite as confusing as Natural Armor, which is a distinct statistic that adds to AC and can have multiple bonus types applied to it, rather than simply being a bonus type itself...)

Short version: Potency lies. We're fixing it where we have found any errors, for Update 29 (should be reflected on Lamannia right now).

(To my knowledge, only potency is outright wrong re: spell powers and bonus types etc.)

Thank you for clearing that up. I was never able to figure out where my various Spell Power totals came from before this. I have a +114 SP augment slotted, a +45 Implement bonus to Universal Spell Power, and I'm wearing the Sage's Ring which says it has Potency - "Passive: +92 Equipment bonus to Universal Spell Power." But the numbers never worked out, until now with the correct understanding of Potency.

I think it is fantastic that you're intending to fix this in U29. Having in-game text which conveys inaccurate information to the players is a very bad thing, and should be corrected any time it is identified. But there are a very large number of other ways in which the game lies to the players, on items, in Enhancements, in Epic Destinies, and others. Putting in place a plan or schedule for fixing them all would be very much appreciated. Listing them in the known issues list should be assumed, but most of them are not on that list.

[RapkintheRanger]

There's some release notes for Lamannia as well and for Update 29 upcoming, but to clarify some mistakes made in the past:

• Potency lies. Potency says it is a bonus to universal spell power. It's wrong. It's a bonus to each other specific spell power. Potency gives +X Equipment bonus to Fire Spell Power and Electric Spell Power and Repair and Positive etc. Because of this, it won't stack with other things that give the same bonuses to those spell powers.
• There is a distinct statistic which is universal spell power. This is different from all the other spell powers, and stacks with all of them. It is a bit confusing. (Not quite as confusing as Natural Armor, which is a distinct statistic that adds to AC and can have multiple bonus types applied to it, rather than simply being a bonus type itself...)

Short version: Potency lies. We're fixing it where we have found any errors, for Update 29 (should be reflected on Lamannia right now).

(To my knowledge, only potency is outright wrong re: spell powers and bonus types etc.)

is there a list some where. like an excell spreadsheet that i can consult to figure out what stacks with what?

[Kompera_Oberon]

is there a list some where. like an excell spreadsheet that i can consult to figure out what stacks with what?

If the item description is accurate, then the largest of any given Type of bonus is applied.
So if you have a +2 Equipment bonus to Strength, and a +4 Equipment bonus to Strength, you'll gain +4 to your Strength because similar Types do not stack.
If you also had a +1 Exceptional Bonus to Strength then you'd have a +5 total bonus to your Strength, because the Equipment type and the Exceptional type will stack with each other.
Untyped bonuses will stack with other untyped bonuses. So buying a +1 Strength from Tier 1 Divine Crusader will stack when you buy another +1 Strength from Tier 2 Divine Crusader.

The D20SRD explains it as such:

Stacking

In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

[ZeebaNeighba]

There's some release notes for Lamannia as well and for Update 29 upcoming, but to clarify some mistakes made in the past:

• Potency lies. Potency says it is a bonus to universal spell power. It's wrong. It's a bonus to each other specific spell power. Potency gives +X Equipment bonus to Fire Spell Power and Electric Spell Power and Repair and Positive etc. Because of this, it won't stack with other things that give the same bonuses to those spell powers.
• There is a distinct statistic which is universal spell power. This is different from all the other spell powers, and stacks with all of them. It is a bit confusing. (Not quite as confusing as Natural Armor, which is a distinct statistic that adds to AC and can have multiple bonus types applied to it, rather than simply being a bonus type itself...)

Short version: Potency lies. We're fixing it where we have found any errors, for Update 29 (should be reflected on Lamannia right now).

(To my knowledge, only potency is outright wrong re: spell powers and bonus types etc.)

So does potency boost the more obscure spell power types that there doesn't seem to be an item for? For example, the poison damage on creeping doom?

[fangblackhawk]

From my recollection, I'm fairly certain everything named "potency" is NOT applying to Universal, but actually to each. (Text should be addressed in U29/Lamannia, though it's possible we've missed some text somewhere.)

wgen spell power were %'s things like the trinkit from necro 3 scarab turn ins had 30% "universial spellpower" and did infact stack with all other non like amounts..... and was like all other %'s in the game were non like amounts stacked mutiplicitivly but had the same bonus type....... so they all became enhancment bonuses, and no longer stack with eachother...........

of note this once qwsome item is now a lame 20 potency i can craft at lvl 1

note 2 still waiting on shard seal scroll epic items to get there update... Ie: the carny epic mask of tragedy is worse than the darkstorm helms heroic version

[smithers]

So does potency boost the more obscure spell power types that there doesn't seem to be an item for? For example, the poison damage on creeping doom?

"Poison" is not a spell power type. If it's boosted by spell power at all, it would probably be tied to Impulse, which is sometimes but not always used for untyped damage, as it is in case of Disintegrate.

I don't think there is any case where "Potency" provides a benefit that isn't provided (and to a greater degree for same-level gear) by a type-specific boost such as Combustion/Impulse/Etc.

Basically Potency is nice for one of the following scenarios:

1. You are not a min/maxer and hate swapping gear before casting
2. You are casting something like Prismatic Ray (or have some other way of doing multiple type damage such as Shiradi) and maxxing using type-specific boots is impractical with your loadout
3. You generally do swap to maximize spell power, but recognize there will be times when you either forget or don't have time (firing off a quick but underpowered heal while still holding your radiance items might save your life)

For Potency as "backup" look for items like Spidersilk Robes or Twilight, where it comes packaged with other nice benefits.