Elf Wizard

[DogMania]

From what is available so far it looks like this race/class will now be obsolete. Having to spend 5AP's before u can access the Arcanum is mad when there is NOTHING of any use for these 5 points.
Also it has only 3 tiers so max you can get is +3 Spell Pen and 75 Spell point which is another 6 AP's so that's now 11 gone.
In the current system you can have 4 levels so that is +4 spell pen and 80 Spell points for a cost of 4 AP's, so unless they do something in the class tree to make up for it my toon will have to be totally reworked

[apep1412]

You should probably bug report it, based on MajMal's posts on what qualifies as a bug for the enhancement pass.

[RavenStormclaw]

From what is available so far it looks like this race/class will now be obsolete. Having to spend 5AP's before u can access the Arcanum is mad when there is NOTHING of any use for these 5 points.
Also it has only 3 tiers so max you can get is +3 Spell Pen and 75 Spell point which is another 6 AP's so that's now 11 gone.
In the current system you can have 4 levels so that is +4 spell pen and 80 Spell points for a cost of 4 AP's, so unless they do something in the class tree to make up for it my toon will have to be totally reworked

First, you should recheck the facts. Eleven arcanum is 25/50/100 spell points not the way you described. Second there is at least 3 ap to be consumed with arcane fluidity. You may thinks its useless but its not. The whole tree has potential for a very effective eleven trapper archmage.

[DogMania]

First, you should recheck the facts. Eleven arcanum is 25/50/100 spell points not the way you described. Second there is at least 3 ap to be consumed with arcane fluidity. You may thinks its useless but its not. The whole tree has potential for a very effective eleven trapper archmage.

Well as im a CC caster Mass hold etc will now be useless in EE

[Iriale]

But I don’t want arcane fluidity. I don’t want armor in my wizards or rogue/wizards. And in pnp wizard is the favored class of Elves. Not archer. Not fighter. Not rogue. It’s WIZARD. The alpha racial tree is horrible for wizards.

Archer APs, good. Multiclass fighter/rogue/arcane APs, good. But elves need more arcane perks. They excel in magic. Their favored class is wizard!!!!

And the prestige classes for the race should be: archmage, arcane archer, arcane knight, phiarlan heir. No more Legolas-only elves, please. No more wrong cliches.

Sorry for my terrible English.

[apep1412]

Well as im a CC caster Mass hold etc will now be useless in EE

So, without seeing what the archmage tree has changed to, you've decided that -1 spell pen and +1 enchant DC from racial enhancements has made your character useless? Even losing 4 spell pen from not taking any of them shouldn't make a caster that was previously moderately useful into one that is useless.

[Dodoroq]

Well as im a CC caster Mass hold etc will now be useless in EE

Your wizard will not be worse than it is now on life. 1st lifers are not good enough in terms of DC in EE anyway. If you had more lives after you, you might be viable. Now, current elf enhancements do nothing for you save +80 SP, +4 SR, for a cost of 10 APs. Now you can get +100 SP, +3SR with a cost of 11 AP's, not really a big change. On top of that, if you want Enchantment-based CC, you may go for +1 DC on Ench. spells. That way, elven racial enhancement suggestion is pretty on par with current elven wizards.

The problem is elves should be able to perform as wizards well. This enh. suggestion boosts non-wizard elven casters, but not wizards. Same time, it boosts humans, helves and drow significantly as casters, and this is the reason elves stay behind - not because they would be weaker in suggestion then they are now. All is relative.

As I have already suggested in the elven thread, to make elven enhancements better suited, elves need selector to boost dex/int, small bonuses (like 2-3%) to universal spellpower where they now get +2% attack only, int-based SLA selector where there is the wis-based one, possibly another +1DC to enchantement on first tier of enchantment mastery and one tier-4/5 caster-aimed ability. Seems quite a lot, but the changes themselves are pretty minor. Then elves would be fine as enchantment masters and somewhat lacking to humans and drow etc in nuking, which I find proper given the fluff.

[Iriale]

the problem is elves should be able to perform as wizards well. This enh. Suggestion boosts non-wizard elven casters, but not wizards. Same time, it boosts humans, helves and drow significantly as casters, and this is the reason elves stay behind - not because they would be weaker in suggestion then they are now. All is relative.

As i have already suggested in the elven thread, to make elven enhancements better suited, elves need selector to boost dex/int, small bonuses (like 2-3%) to universal spellpower where they now get +2% attack only, int-based sla selector where there is the wis-based one, possibly another +1dc to enchantement on first tier of enchantment mastery and one tier-4/5 caster-aimed ability. Seems quite a lot, but the changes themselves are pretty minor. Then elves would be fine as enchantment masters and somewhat lacking to humans and drow etc in nuking, which i find proper given the fluff.

+1

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

so. . . what about your fey magic? sac 1 hp for how much sp? 10% incorp (which unless you are a wraith is nice) and you think elves were nerfed. . . complainers gonna complain please explain the problem you have, 1 spell pen. . . roll 1 higher

[Kaldais]

A simple fix to elven would be add an elf only racial tier 5 above Arcanum with 2 tiers that boosts a choosen school DC by 1 per tier.

[Indoran]

your wizard will not be worse than it is now on life. 1st lifers are not good enough in terms of dc in ee anyway. If you had more lives after you, you might be viable. Now, current elf enhancements do nothing for you save +80 sp, +4 sr, for a cost of 10 aps. Now you can get +100 sp, +3sr with a cost of 11 ap's, not really a big change. On top of that, if you want enchantment-based cc, you may go for +1 dc on ench. Spells. That way, elven racial enhancement suggestion is pretty on par with current elven wizards.

The problem is elves should be able to perform as wizards well. This enh. Suggestion boosts non-wizard elven casters, but not wizards. Same time, it boosts humans, helves and drow significantly as casters, and this is the reason elves stay behind - not because they would be weaker in suggestion then they are now. All is relative.

As i have already suggested in the elven thread, to make elven enhancements better suited, elves need selector to boost dex/int, small bonuses (like 2-3%) to universal spellpower where they now get +2% attack only, int-based sla selector where there is the wis-based one, possibly another +1dc to enchantement on first tier of enchantment mastery and one tier-4/5 caster-aimed ability. Seems quite a lot, but the changes themselves are pretty minor. Then elves would be fine as enchantment masters and somewhat lacking to humans and drow etc in nuking, which i find proper given the fluff.

+1

[DogMania]

First, you should recheck the facts. Eleven arcanum is 25/50/100 spell points not the way you described. Second there is at least 3 ap to be consumed with arcane fluidity. You may thinks its useless but its not. The whole tree has potential for a very effective eleven trapper archmage.

Ok on the spell points I was wrong and you are right for the 3 levels it is 100sp IN TOTAL

[DogMania]

So, without seeing what the archmage tree has changed to, you've decided that -1 spell pen and +1 enchant DC from racial enhancements has made your character useless? Even losing 4 spell pen from not taking any of them shouldn't make a caster that was previously moderately useful into one that is useless.

So a 3rd life wizard with 2 wiz past lives is Moderately useful?

[DogMania]

Your wizard will not be worse than it is now on life. 1st lifers are not good enough in terms of DC in EE anyway. If you had more lives after you, you might be viable. Now, current elf enhancements do nothing for you save +80 SP, +4 SR, for a cost of 10 APs. Now you can get +100 SP, +3SR with a cost of 11 AP's, not really a big change. On top of that, if you want Enchantment-based CC, you may go for +1 DC on Ench. spells. That way, elven racial enhancement suggestion is pretty on par with current elven wizards.

The problem is elves should be able to perform as wizards well. This enh. suggestion boosts non-wizard elven casters, but not wizards. Same time, it boosts humans, helves and drow significantly as casters, and this is the reason elves stay behind - not because they would be weaker in suggestion then they are now. All is relative.

As I have already suggested in the elven thread, to make elven enhancements better suited, elves need selector to boost dex/int, small bonuses (like 2-3%) to universal spellpower where they now get +2% attack only, int-based SLA selector where there is the wis-based one, possibly another +1DC to enchantement on first tier of enchantment mastery and one tier-4/5 caster-aimed ability. Seems quite a lot, but the changes themselves are pretty minor. Then elves would be fine as enchantment masters and somewhat lacking to humans and drow etc in nuking, which I find proper given the fluff.

Im a 3rd life wizard not a 1st and current elf enhancements cost 4AP NOT 10 (1 per level).
I started making this toon to run the OLD epics not what we have now and have invested a lot of time getting what I consider to be a CC wizard as in CROWD CONTROL not lets see if we can just nuke them, so yes spell pen is VERY important to me, why don't you look up what spell pen you need for EE then you will see that taking some away is a bad step

[DogMania]

+1

Plus 1 my arse

[DogMania]

So, without seeing what the archmage tree has changed to, you've decided that -1 spell pen and +1 enchant DC from racial enhancements has made your character useless?

Try re-reading the last part of my post

[Seikojin]

Looking at EllisDee37's thread on Elf: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=17

And my suggested thread on Elf: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=17

And looking at the stuff here, I think having selectors for each of the selector enhancements would be perfect to add the caster related options.

I think the multi-selectors definitely could favor versatility over generic ideals. I will be scanning my suggested versions and update them based on the feedback I get. So far the only feedback I got was it frees up too many AP and that the AP reqs get too high. So I will be going over that to hopefully find a better solution.

[apep1412]

So a 3rd life wizard with 2 wiz past lives is Moderately useful?

If this change would make it useless, then yes. If a caster is currently for than moderately useful, then 4 less spell pen isn't going to make it useless.

Try re-reading the last part of my post

I find it funny that you purposely removed the last part of my post, which directly relates to the last part of your post.

[wolflordnexus]

But I don’t want arcane fluidity. I don’t want armor in my wizards or rogue/wizards. And in pnp wizard is the favored class of Elves. Not archer. Not fighter. Not rogue. It’s WIZARD. The alpha racial tree is horrible for wizards.

Archer APs, good. Multiclass fighter/rogue/arcane APs, good. But elves need more arcane perks. They excel in magic. Their favored class is wizard!!!!

And the prestige classes for the race should be: archmage, arcane archer, arcane knight, phiarlan heir. No more Legolas-only elves, please. No more wrong cliches.

Sorry for my terrible English.

Lolwut you just argued against yourself in PnP Elves made sucktastic pure class wizards the only wizard advantage they got was Multiclassing wizard. -con no int bonus = Bad for pure wizard. as far as core races were concerned Dwarfs made the best wizards. I'm all for making Elves do what they always should have done but lets not pretend they have ever done so before.

[Iriale]

Lolwut you just argued against yourself in PnP Elves made sucktastic pure class wizards the only wizard advantage they got was Multiclassing wizard. -con no int bonus = Bad for pure wizard. as far as core races were concerned Dwarfs made the best wizards. I'm all for making Elves do what they always should have done but lets not pretend they have ever done so before.

In AD&D abilities were not as important as they would be in 3.X, and in AD&D elves had great options in magic outside of abilities (like exclusive spells and magic items). WOTC made a mistake when passed the race to 3rd edition but after they added great elven wizards options (such as elf generalist wizard option: one spell slot of the highest level at no cost. See Races of the wild) And yet many players believe that these options are not equal to the second edition elf wizard.

Turbine should not repeat the initial WOTC mistakes. They should do it right from the start.

PFRPG fixed the elf race: +2 int, +2 dex, -2 con and Elven magic feature (+2 spell penetration) This in core race! I don’t like PFRPG, but it shows how many people see that WOTC made a mistake at the beginning of third edition. Are you suggesting that Turbine repeat the same mistake, after one decade? It's time to do things right from the start. By fluff elves have always been great wizards (too in 3.X: favored class, wizard), and their number choices should reflect this.

Archer and dex-based warrior options are ok for the race. They are fluff-wise. Nature-related options are ok for the race (although Phiarlan elves are more about illusion) But wizard choices are too fluff wise (remember: favored class wizard, in second and third editions) Why do you want limit the race? And elves too need more choices for multiclass wizard-fighters (a few caster level bonuses for multiclass toons would be nice) Elven wizard archmages are a classic, but the fighter wizard too.