Epic Claw set and more stealth nerfed

[Missing_Minds]

Your character STARTS OFF without that metaknowledge. That doesnt change the rule however. They can GAIN that knowledge. If my wizard invests in magical weapon crafting, he will understand that he cant add +5 enhancement to another +5 enhancement to make a +10 enhanced weapon. The DM doesnt have to tell me this unless I make a knowledge roll, but the rule doesnt change simply because my character doesnt know.

Pure metagaming, Chai. He will understand he can't add a "bear" enchantment to a "bear" enchantment to make it a "two times bear" enchantment in strength, But maybe doing so will end up with a stronger "bear" enchantment. Such then to keep things ordered in his mind, he'll now call it a "brown bear" and a "grizzly bear" enchantment. DMs only tell players + values because the player understands those a LOT easier.

The DM doesn't have to tell you a thing, honestly. "yeap, you are very darn certain it is sharper than before. In fact you proved it by cutting through a rock like butter." Vs. telling you "it is now a +10."

Mohs scale in mineral reference to numbers is a perfect example of this. But anyway,
/end tangent. Back to the nerf frustration.

[Henky]

Did some testing on lama land:

Shintao Bonus: +2 exceptional bonus to attack and damage (not untyped)
Way of the Sun soul: +2 artifact bonus to attack and damage
Planar prowess: +4 artifact bonus to attack and damage
Frenzied Berserker I: +2 untyped bonus to damage

Despite being artifact bonus, on my monk on lama, sun soul set + planar prowess set stack together.

[rest]

Despite being artifact bonus, on my monk on lama, sun soul set + planar prowess set stack together.

Not for long now that you let the cat out of the bag.

[Grailhawk]

it's easy mr. Ape_man if that is your real name. The gloves of the claw are made by old developers and the purple dragon nights are made by well current developers. And that's that.

ftfy

[Henky]

why are shintao and FB sets still untyped?

Shintao Set Bonus: +2 Exceptional Bonus to To-Hit and Damage.

[maddmatt70]

Did some testing on lama land:

Way of the Sun soul: +2 artifact bonus to attack and damage
Planar prowess: +4 artifact bonus to attack and damage

Despite being artifact bonus, on my monk on lama, sun soul set + planar prowess set stack together.

Hmm you sure about this? Sounds like a bug that artifact bonuses would stack. Will just have to see when this goes live.

[Cordovan]

Many set bonuses are being reclassified from untyped to artifact bonuses to better enable the development team to scale dungeons in a more consistent manner, since having multiple sources of untyped stacking set bonuses (particularly damage bonuses) can lead to outlier cases where some players face a less-than-intended challenge in some quest difficulties, including Epic Elite.

Having consistent classifications for set bonuses also makes it easier for new and existing players to understand what benefits are available to them. Players could upgrade to a higher-level set bonus that included a higher damage bonus, for example, or choose to use a completely different set bonus that is more in-line with their current character's level and goals.

The +4 damage bonus from Greater Vulkoor's Might and +4 damage bonus from the Planar Focus: Prowess (or +3 bonus from Knight's Loyalty), for example, should probably never have stacked together, but did due to their classification as an untyped bonus. While it's true that some characters who have used these sets together will lose +4 of their damage bonus, the intent is to offer a wider diversity of set bonuses in the future, and allow the development team to better scale dungeons with the power level of player characters. If we do find that some item sets become disproprtionally underutilized as a result of this change, we may consider individually buffing those set bonuses in a future patch.

I should also note that not all set bonuses are becoming Artifact bonuses. Set bonuses that already had a specific classification will keep that type.

[Missing_Minds]

the intent is to offer a wider diversity of set bonuses in the future, ...

Uhoh... that's that phrasing again.

[Alundaar]

does this mean i'm going to have to throw out my sora kell sets?

[Qhualor]

Many set bonuses are being reclassified from untyped to artifact bonuses to better enable the development team to scale dungeons in a more consistent manner, since having multiple sources of untyped stacking set bonuses (particularly damage bonuses) can lead to outlier cases where some players face a less-than-intended challenge in some quest difficulties, including Epic Elite.

Having consistent classifications for set bonuses also makes it easier for new and existing players to understand what benefits are available to them. Players could upgrade to a higher-level set bonus that included a higher damage bonus, for example, or choose to use a completely different set bonus that is more in-line with their current character's level and goals.

The +4 damage bonus from Greater Vulkoor's Might and +4 damage bonus from the Planar Focus: Prowess (or +3 bonus from Knight's Loyalty), for example, should probably never have stacked together, but did due to their classification as an untyped bonus. While it's true that some characters who have used these sets together will lose +4 of their damage bonus, the intent is to offer a wider diversity of set bonuses in the future, and allow the development team to better scale dungeons with the power level of player characters. If we do find that some item sets become disproprtionally underutilized as a result of this change, we may consider individually buffing those set bonuses in a future patch.

I should also note that not all set bonuses are becoming Artifact bonuses. Set bonuses that already had a specific classification will keep that type.

Interesting. Tackling 2 things at once. Giving some of us the challenge back in quests? I hope this change becomes a bit broader and not just melees.

[Chai]

Pure metagaming, Chai. He will understand he can't add a "bear" enchantment to a "bear" enchantment to make it a "two times bear" enchantment in strength, But maybe doing so will end up with a stronger "bear" enchantment. Such then to keep things ordered in his mind, he'll now call it a "brown bear" and a "grizzly bear" enchantment. DMs only tell players + values because the player understands those a LOT easier.

The DM doesn't have to tell you a thing, honestly. "yeap, you are very darn certain it is sharper than before. In fact you proved it by cutting through a rock like butter." Vs. telling you "it is now a +10."

Mohs scale in mineral reference to numbers is a perfect example of this. But anyway,
/end tangent. Back to the nerf frustration.

Yeah, its always pure metagaming when DMs tell players something they already know, but they are saying it to pass the understanding along that their characters know it too. They should tell you its plus 10 or not, unless they want to silently calculate the extra plusses in their mind every single time the character swings that weapon, and keep track of every weapon that has every hidden property on every character in order to adjust the to hit roll accordingly for every roll made in the game....yeah you get the point. Id rather the player just have that written out on their character sheet so each players turn doesnt take an insane amount of time. Metagaming, for DM convenience, and creating a situation where one round of combat doesnt take 90 minutes to simulate.

[Ape_Man]

Interesting. Tackling 2 things at once. Giving some of us the challenge back in quests? I hope this change becomes a bit broader and not just melees.

Yes . . . because melees SO needed to be nerfed

[Ormyrr]

Just make the bonuses bigger, let's say +6 or +8 ^^.

[Ape_Man]

The +4 damage bonus from Greater Vulkoor's Might and +4 damage bonus from the Planar Focus: Prowess (or +3 bonus from Knight's Loyalty), for example, should probably never have stacked together, but did due to their classification as an untyped bonus. While it's true that some characters who have used these sets together will lose +4 of their damage bonus, the intent is to offer a wider diversity of set bonuses in the future, and allow the development team to better scale dungeons with the power level of player characters. If we do find that some item sets become disproprtionally underutilized as a result of this change, we may consider individually buffing those set bonuses in a future patch.

Just an FYI . . . changing Planar focus from stacking to not-stacking makes many of these weapons go from "pretty darned good" to "heck with it, I'll stick with alchemicals and save myself some grind."

You're devaluing the CiTW loot with this change.

[SableShadow]

Uhoh... that's that phrasing again.

[Henky]

Hmm you sure about this? Sounds like a bug that artifact bonuses would stack. Will just have to see when this goes live.

Pretty sure.

My monk with shintao+sunset+planar have a +8 to attack and damage. Or at least is what inventory panel says.

The +4 damage bonus from Greater Vulkoor's Might and +4 damage bonus from the Planar Focus: Prowess (or +3 bonus from Knight's Loyalty), for example, should probably never have stacked together, but did due to their classification as an untyped bonus. While it's true that some characters who have used these sets together will lose +4 of their damage bonus, the intent is to offer a wider diversity of set bonuses in the future, and allow the development team to better scale dungeons with the power level of player characters. If we do find that some item sets become disproprtionally underutilized as a result of this change, we may consider individually buffing those set bonuses in a future patch.

My bet... not stacking with planar prowess, only +6 str and no slots... nobody is going to use claw set anymore.

[Ape_Man]

My bet... not stacking with planar prowess, only +6 str and no slots... nobody is going to use claw set anymore.

I'm better the opposite. CiTW stuff is going to become less sexy. They are very good situationally . . . but so's a free trinket slot.

[Argila]

Many set bonuses are being reclassified from untyped to artifact bonuses to better enable the development team to scale dungeons in a more consistent manner, since having multiple sources of untyped stacking set bonuses (particularly damage bonuses) can lead to outlier cases where some players face a less-than-intended challenge in some quest difficulties, including Epic Elite.

Having consistent classifications for set bonuses also makes it easier for new and existing players to understand what benefits are available to them. Players could upgrade to a higher-level set bonus that included a higher damage bonus, for example, or choose to use a completely different set bonus that is more in-line with their current character's level and goals.

The +4 damage bonus from Greater Vulkoor's Might and +4 damage bonus from the Planar Focus: Prowess (or +3 bonus from Knight's Loyalty), for example, should probably never have stacked together, but did due to their classification as an untyped bonus. While it's true that some characters who have used these sets together will lose +4 of their damage bonus, the intent is to offer a wider diversity of set bonuses in the future, and allow the development team to better scale dungeons with the power level of player characters. If we do find that some item sets become disproprtionally underutilized as a result of this change, we may consider individually buffing those set bonuses in a future patch.

I should also note that not all set bonuses are becoming Artifact bonuses. Set bonuses that already had a specific classification will keep that type.

What i read from this:
blablablablablabla nerfing all the stuff we want and dont care about what you think blablablablablabla you now have to grind more stuff and you better like it blablablablablabla

[murf201]

Many set bonuses are being reclassified from untyped to artifact bonuses to better enable the development team to scale dungeons in a more consistent manner, since having multiple sources of untyped stacking set bonuses (particularly damage bonuses) can lead to outlier cases where some players face a less-than-intended challenge in some quest difficulties, including Epic Elite.

Having consistent classifications for set bonuses also makes it easier for new and existing players to understand what benefits are available to them. Players could upgrade to a higher-level set bonus that included a higher damage bonus, for example, or choose to use a completely different set bonus that is more in-line with their current character's level and goals.

The +4 damage bonus from Greater Vulkoor's Might and +4 damage bonus from the Planar Focus: Prowess (or +3 bonus from Knight's Loyalty), for example, should probably never have stacked together, but did due to their classification as an untyped bonus. While it's true that some characters who have used these sets together will lose +4 of their damage bonus, the intent is to offer a wider diversity of set bonuses in the future, and allow the development team to better scale dungeons with the power level of player characters. If we do find that some item sets become disproprtionally underutilized as a result of this change, we may consider individually buffing those set bonuses in a future patch.

I should also note that not all set bonuses are becoming Artifact bonuses. Set bonuses that already had a specific classification will keep that type.

So what your telling me is that the new blackscale gives me no special artifact bonus at all , But melees still get 3% doublestrike , You took away one of the 2 things i might of wanted from Egh . You really know how to punch us ranged characters in the throat !!!!!!!!!

[Henky]

I'm better the opposite. CiTW stuff is going to become less sexy. They are very good situationally . . . but so's a free trinket slot.

If i can have a citw weapons, i will prefer it over claw set. +4 attack/damage +15 prr and +8 stat is better than claw, imho. This way you can have PDK gloves + convalescence of superior parrying bracers.