DDO Bonus Days!

[slarden]

So then you want to remove the small guild renown bonus since that rewards a particular play style and has no bearing on skill or effort?

Small guild bonus was put in because DDO's vision was to let guilds of all sizes have an equal chance to advance. Even with the bonus, small guilds need significantly more renown per person to level. If decay was removed entirely a guild of 10 or less that was stuck at 60 would only gain 2 additional levels per year with the small guild bonus. Many large guilds have already gained 10+ levels on Sarlona with the 90% reduction in decay. This makes mathematical sense since these large guilds have so much renown earning potential.

[slarden]

Then become a larger guild..... OK, so you like your guild the way it is. Well there it is..... Until they change it that is... Which I'm guessing will be in U-17 when the fall over backwards to appease you poor souls...

Life isn't fair... Never was never will be....

This is in fact what is happening. The change was put in to encourage large guilds to take new players. The same exact guilds that always took new players are still taking new players. The large guilds that are more selective (most) are recruiting vets from small guilds to grow and level faster.

I agree the system isn't fair.

[smatt]

This is in fact what is happening. The change was put in to encourage large guilds to take new players. The same exact guilds that always took new players are still taking new players. The large guilds that are more selective (most) are recruiting vets from small guilds to grow and level faster.

I agree the system isn't fair.

Poor little guilds....

[smatt]

This is in fact what is happening. The change was put in to encourage large guilds to take new players. The same exact guilds that always took new players are still taking new players. The large guilds that are more selective (most) are recruiting vets from small guilds to grow and level faster.

I agree the system isn't fair.

I knwo htis is a big thing for you slarden, and while I do find the new system as it stands biased towards the larger guilds. Tehre are chocies we all make, there's upsides and downsides... You for instance have chosen to be a small guild with peopel you know and play with often, so you have that upside. The downside is that you wil ahve problems hittting high guild levels within this new system. Where some of us out here have chosen to be in larger guilds, mine averaging at this poitn around 70 active ACCOUNTS (Not characters, as there does seem to be a lot of confusion between chracters and accounts). We were up around 100 active accounts and the 1,000 chracter max for a while though. But with a guild that size comes other downsides, of not directly knowing everybody, etc. The upside is that we are advancing steadily again in guild levels.

The old system celarly favored small guild with 7 active accounts being the magic number for a secret reason LOL. And clearly lookign at the old statistics it was for the most part the smll guilds that were hitting the highest levels. With many of the larger guilds capping out...

So now then, finding a ssytem that is compeltely 100% fair, as YOU would put it isn't all that easy. One that doesn't encourage a particular guild size. Yes, yes you 've psoted some fancy ideas, all with various drawbacks that would encourage certain behaviors.

So in the end we all make choices, thsoe choices involve adavantages and disadvantages.... Just as you decide how to build your character, takign advantae of certain aspects, while also having drawbacks... The guild renown system is of the same nature...

Facts are like baseball bats... They hurt when they smaklc you in the head...

[Dandonk]

So, the old system was bad because it hurt you, but since the new system doesn't hurt you, it's OK?

At least, that's how I read your posts.

But thanks for sharing.

[smatt]

So, the old system was bad because it hurt you, but since the new system doesn't hurt you, it's OK?

At least, that's how I read your posts.

But thanks for sharing.

Um the odl system was a huge advantage for small boutique guilds... The new system is fine for small and large guilds, with the exception of the ransack. They should put the ransack on a scale so that small guilds only get a minor hit.

There.. So you little guild people can still have your quint little guilds and not take a major hit.... I know the self-entitlement crowd wants it all set up for them.... But.. Considering the amount of tears.. I'm sure they will give all to you.... Just like before...

And yes thanks for sharing

[Dandonk]

Um the odl system was a huge advantage for small boutique guilds... The new system is fine for small and large guilds, with the exception of the ransack. They should put the ransack on a scale so that small guilds only get a minor hit.

There.. So you little guild people can still have your quint little guilds and not take a major hit.... I know the self-entitlement crowd wants it all set up for them.... But.. Considering the amount of tears.. I'm sure they will give all to you.... Just like before...

And yes thanks for sharing

Old system valued activity. And mathematically, even then large guilds at had an advantage. But no, that wasn't enough for you, you wanted more - and at any cost to the rest of us, it seems.

[smatt]

Old system valued activity. And mathematically, even then large guilds at had an advantage. But no, that wasn't enough for you, you wanted more - and at any cost to the rest of us, it seems.

Um and that's why the vast majority of guilds over level 85 within the prior system were small guilds.. Um ya OK.. Got ya....

And yes the entire sytem rewards activety, as it should.... I'm sorry casual boutique guilds shouldn't get the same advantages as large very active guilds... Just as the part time worker shouldn't get the same pay as the full time one. Yes, I know it's a game.. But oyu can't have it all... Unless you come from YOUR mindset... Heck, in your world I guess they shoudl jsut advance you r little guild to 100 and leave it there..... Since you're so special and all

[Dandonk]

Um and that's why the vast majority of guilds over level 85 within the prior system were small guilds.. Um ya OK.. Got ya....

And yes the entire sytem rewards activety, as it should.... I'm sorry casual boutique guilds shouldn't get the same advantages as large very active guilds... Just as the part time worker shouldn't get the same pay as the full time one. Yes, I know it's a game.. But oyu can't have it all... Unless you come from YOUR mindset... Heck, in your world I guess they shoudl jsut advance you r little guild to 100 and leave it there..... Since you're so special and all

That's because they were more active.

Active large guilds would have had it just as easy, or even easier. But it seems they didn't exist.

I'm not special. It seems large guilds were - they needed special treatment.

I just want the same kind of bonus that you got. That would be fair, IMO.

[Gunga]

But with a guild that size comes other downsides, of not directly knowing everybody, etc.

Remember when we were guildies for a little while? That was fun.

[smatt]

That's because they were more active.

Active large guilds would have had it just as easy, or even easier. But it seems they didn't exist.

I'm not special. It seems large guilds were - they needed special treatment.

I just want the same kind of bonus that you got. That would be fair, IMO.

Then do what my guild and otehr did.... Recruit more players... But you want to be special and have you rlittle guild be treated the same as all guilds.. They never said the system was going to be 100% equal accross the board.. And again, we all make our choices.. You choose to be in a small guild and yet don't don't want the downsides of that choice....

And BTW, I never said jack all of anything about the old system...

[smatt]

Remember when we were guildies for a little while? That was fun.

You're still a meow meow boy Gunga

[Dandonk]

Then do what my guild and otehr did.... Recruit more players... But you want to be special and have you rlittle guild be treated the same as all guilds.. They never said the system was going to be 100% equal accross the board.. And again, we all make our choices.. You choose to be in a small guild and yet don't don't want the downsides of that choice....

And BTW, I never said jack all of anything about the old system...

You want to be in a large guild and not have to work as hard as people in small guilds - why is that fair? Why should large guilds automatically get huge bonuses?

[Gkar]

You want to be in a large guild and not have to work as hard as people in small guilds - why is that fair? Why should large guilds automatically get huge bonuses?

It's the small guilds who get the bonuses.

[Boombastic]

Better yet, *** does anything about guild size have to do with the bonus days???

[Dandonk]

It's the small guilds who get the bonuses.

Not decay-wise. There large guilds get, in some cases, as much as TEN times less decay per player, a bonus that outstrips even the largest small guild bonus by a wide margin.

[slarden]

I knwo htis is a big thing for you slarden, and while I do find the new system as it stands biased towards the larger guilds. Tehre are chocies we all make, there's upsides and downsides... You for instance have chosen to be a small guild with peopel you know and play with often, so you have that upside. The downside is that you wil ahve problems hittting high guild levels within this new system. Where some of us out here have chosen to be in larger guilds, mine averaging at this poitn around 70 active ACCOUNTS (Not characters, as there does seem to be a lot of confusion between chracters and accounts). We were up around 100 active accounts and the 1,000 chracter max for a while though. But with a guild that size comes other downsides, of not directly knowing everybody, etc. The upside is that we are advancing steadily again in guild levels.

The old system celarly favored small guild with 7 active accounts being the magic number for a secret reason LOL. And clearly lookign at the old statistics it was for the most part the smll guilds that were hitting the highest levels. With many of the larger guilds capping out...

So now then, finding a ssytem that is compeltely 100% fair, as YOU would put it isn't all that easy. One that doesn't encourage a particular guild size. Yes, yes you 've psoted some fancy ideas, all with various drawbacks that would encourage certain behaviors.

So in the end we all make choices, thsoe choices involve adavantages and disadvantages.... Just as you decide how to build your character, takign advantae of certain aspects, while also having drawbacks... The guild renown system is of the same nature...

Facts are like baseball bats... They hurt when they smaklc you in the head...

It's very easy to find a systme that is beneficial for all guilds - eliminate decay.

The old system slightly favored small guilds due to a bug in the # of accounts calculation which was:

(accounts +10) and should have been (accounts * small guild bonus). However unfair this was, it was a slight advantage that meant 5-6 levels. The new system highly favors large guilds.

As foir the objective of not favoring guild size. The new system fails as it highly faovrs large guilds. Those of us in small guilds will find it harder to find raids as people shift to large guilds that host guild-only runs.

I don't think this change is better than eliminating decay - not even close.

[twigzz]

Better yet, *** does anything about guild size have to do with the bonus days???

Meh, these 2 will kill any thread that says renown in it, even if they mention it first. lol *shrugs*

[Buddrow]

The old system celarly favored small guild with 7 active accounts being the magic number for a secret reason LOL. And clearly lookign at the old statistics it was for the most part the smll guilds that were hitting the highest levels. With many of the larger guilds capping out...

This is a complete generality. Guild progression has always been a direct result of active account and PLAY TIME.

The reason these "small guilds" were leveling was not because of better renown mechanics it was as it is for large guilds that cap ........active accounts that PLAY ALOT!

When Turbine introduced the guild system everyone agreed that small guilds need an advantage. So what happened? Large guilds started crying because they couldn't cap by blind spamming guild invites. "That's not fair that the small group of friends are leveling faster than my mob of strangers that could care less about each other." That's not to say there were Large guilds that were high level and even capped way long before any 7 man guild ever did.

The current mechanic favors large guilds over small guilds. The advantages of small vs. large have been reversed.

Large guilds are the majority. And small guilds will just have to ride like a minority.

Small guilds were given an advantage to keep them competitive with large guilds. But because of all the large crybaby's that couldn't figure out how to build a guild correctly. This has changed. Again we bring you the spam guild invite and now your small guild will take longer to level than a large guild.

Fair is fair as fair is fair; whatever Turbine has given us is what we have to work with.

Another easy button brought to you from the folks at Turbine to appease the masses.

[mystafyi]

There.. So you little guild people can still have your quint little guilds and not take a major hit.... I know the self-entitlement crowd wants it all set up for them.... But.. Considering the amount of tears.. I'm sure they will give all to you.... Just like before...

Guild renown system has been broken since inception. The pendulum has swung back and forth from small to large guilds for years.

Turbine decided recently to promote large guilds and punish the small ones. Unsure the reason why, but be assured, the pendulum will swing again.

Remember your vitriol towards small guilds for when you are the one punished.